Retailer demands personal information before issuing a refund. How much is too much?

Forums › ICT Policies and Regulation › Retailer demands personal information before issuing a refund. How much is too much?

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#2533870 3-Aug-2020 17:32

mudguard:

How was payment made in the first place? Couldn't they just reverse/credit that way?

In theory, yes. The payments were made by credit card. The same card is still on file.

I actually put that question to them and they confirmed it would be possible. The CS person I dealt with on the phone was actually very helpful and tried to put the refund through directly to my card. A systems issue prevented her from doing so (it was in an old system), but she indicated another team would be able to do it. I was subsequently told the other team couldn't do it either.

snnet

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#2533908 3-Aug-2020 18:56

SirHumphreyAppleby:

mudguard:

How was payment made in the first place? Couldn't they just reverse/credit that way?

In theory, yes. The payments were made by credit card. The same card is still on file.

I actually put that question to them and they confirmed it would be possible. The CS person I dealt with on the phone was actually very helpful and tried to put the refund through directly to my card. A systems issue prevented her from doing so (it was in an old system), but she indicated another team would be able to do it. I was subsequently told the other team couldn't do it either.

The problem with this is finding someone willing to go thru transactions to find the one matching yours - as others have said the main reason for details for refunds is to try and prevent fraudulent returns/staff swiping their own cards to get money from sales "returned"

boosacnoodle

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#2533958 3-Aug-2020 19:00

I'm not sure how every person in this thread thinks it prevents fraud.

If you have the item, original receipt & original payment method, please enlighten me - how are you going to commit fraud?

OP - was the refund a change of mind or for a fault?

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2533959 3-Aug-2020 19:02

boosacnoodle:

OP - was the refund a change of mind or for a fault?

Fault. The product in question was designed for permanent outdoor installation and literally fell apart under NZ conditions.

snnet

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#2533979 3-Aug-2020 19:17

boosacnoodle:

I'm not sure how every person in this thread thinks it prevents fraud.

If you have the item, original receipt & original payment method, please enlighten me - how are you going to commit fraud?

OP - was the refund a change of mind or for a fault?

The fraud isn't going to be the consumer - it's going to be a staff member. Seen it many times - crediting items not actually returned...staff silly enough to use the eftpos card linked to their payroll bank account (it can be hard to get from the card to the bank account when investigating but when it's large amounts it gets done)

Businesses want contact details so they can contact the consumer and see if it was a legitimate return

gzt

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#2534200 3-Aug-2020 23:40

SirHumphreyAppleby: Fault. The product in question was designed for permanent outdoor installation and literally fell apart under NZ conditions.

I assume this is an online order.

Anything I've taken back to The Warehouse over the counter is a shrug and an instant refund/credit/replace 95% of the time. I'd suggest a walk in if it's taking long. This is the primary reason I go out of my way to shop there vs somewhere like Briscoes or one or two others. The dedicated return counter vs some other stores probably helps.

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Handsomedan

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#2534276 4-Aug-2020 09:57

boosacnoodle:

I'm not sure how every person in this thread thinks it prevents fraud.

If you have the item, original receipt & original payment method, please enlighten me - how are you going to commit fraud?

OP - was the refund a change of mind or for a fault?

Returning items for a "cash" refund when goods are bought using a credit card is very much a fraud/AML/CFT issue.

I know that OP has offered the credit card to be refunded to (and a system issue is preventing this from happening), but the fraud and money ,aundering issue is very real...great way to legitimise funds on a small scale.

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antonknee

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#2534497 4-Aug-2020 13:32

One example of refund fraud - buy with a stolen card, return it for cash. Believe me, refund fraud is bigger than you think it is (I've worked for several retailers including the one this thread is about).

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2534525 4-Aug-2020 14:24

I never realised fraud was such an issue in retail.

While fraud is quite likely the rationale behind requesting user details, those of you who believe it to be justification are begging question, presupposing that a company's internal processes can override any right to privacy.

I would think returning funds via the original payment method, to the original person named on the account, and ensuring information against the account hadn't been changed, would be better anti-fraud measures than asking for a name without any verification. Things that don't match should be treated as suspicious, not details that remain the same.

On the subject of monitoring for changes, you can edit your e-mail address on the site without verification. That's one opportunity for fraud right there.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#2534528 4-Aug-2020 14:45

Maybe have a look here at this, and see if they are collecting this information to protect you, and also themselves.

https://www.dia.govt.nz/AML-CFT-Information-for-public

tchart

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#2534594 4-Aug-2020 16:10

vexxxboy:
the Warehouse has always asked for your name when doing a refund and what makes it stupid is they never check if it is the right one, i have never given them my correct name when returning things to the store as, like you , i dont see the reason why they need it.

Yup they have always asked for a name and sometimes phone number. Especially if you are wanting a refund - they generally ask for your autograph if it's an electronic refund too.

I'm more surprised that you had to battle to get a refund or exchange at the Warehouse. They are very good with returns and refunds compared to many others. I don't think I've ever had any refusal from them.

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antonknee

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#2534626 4-Aug-2020 17:03

SirHumphreyAppleby:

I never realised fraud was such an issue in retail.

While fraud is quite likely the rationale behind requesting user details, those of you who believe it to be justification are begging question, presupposing that a company's internal processes can override any right to privacy.

I would think returning funds via the original payment method, to the original person named on the account, and ensuring information against the account hadn't been changed, would be better anti-fraud measures than asking for a name without any verification. Things that don't match should be treated as suspicious, not details that remain the same.

On the subject of monitoring for changes, you can edit your e-mail address on the site without verification. That's one opportunity for fraud right there.

It's not that I presuppose a company's processes can override an individual's right to privacy - it's that I don't think sharing your name with a company to obtain a reimbursement violates your privacy at all.

The fact that you are putting up such a fight would likely be viewed as suspicious to be frank with you.

Generally speaking, yes they can credit your order and return your funds back to the original payment method. Sometimes this doesn't work - for example if your card had expired, this will not be possible (or at least is not in the payment gateways I'm familiar with). Given they've told you this isn't possible, the alternative does require collecting some information from you - and I just don't see that it's reasonable to object to providing simply your name.

andrewNZ

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#2534637 4-Aug-2020 17:27

Fraud, particularly refund fraud is huge in retail. Many retailers insist on refunding via the original payment method.

In this case, the issue is theirs, you shouldn't need to give them anything but the account number.

Yell them your name is Nonoya Bithness.

BlakJak

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#2536788 8-Aug-2020 19:01

andrewNZ: Fraud, particularly refund fraud is huge in retail. Many retailers insist on refunding via the original payment method.

In this case, the issue is theirs, you shouldn't need to give them anything but the account number.

Yell them your name is Nonoya Bithness.

I suggest you read the AML link posted above.

Giving your first name and last name to a legit organisation from whom you wish to receive money, does not seem like any sort of deal-breaker to me.

No signature to see here, move along...

SirHumphreyAppleby

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#2536928 9-Aug-2020 09:33

BlakJak:

I suggest you read the AML link posted above.

The AML legislation applies primarily to financial organisations, although it now includes a wider range of high-risk activities. I don't recall seeing original artwork or real estate on sale the last time I visited a Warehouse store.

Conveniently, there is a list of AML/CFT reporting entities registered with the DIA. Unsurprisingly, none are in the "Retail" sector.

https://aml.dia.govt.nz/AMLReportingEntities/

If there were a legal requirement to collect information, they need to be prepared to justify it and outline exactly how the information would be used. I consider providing such information to be a risk, specifically because the requested information is only needed when dealing with organisations that are legally required to collect it and it is information used to protect bank accounts.

Why should I give a random Customer Service person at a retailer information that potentially puts my financial interests at risk? Posts in this thread haven't exactly painted a favourable picture of retail staff, citing them as one of the main perpetrators of refund fraud.

I obviously haven't filled out my date of birth on my Warehouse account, but with a full name, date of birth, phone number, address and account number, they'd have most of the information required to verify my identity with the bank. Default bank passwords used to be your mother's maiden name, so with a quick trip to a major library to look up birth records, there's a good chance you could check that off the list as well.

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