Tivo CGA Claim October 2017

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Ultimate Geek

#1744763 20-Mar-2017 20:17

minimoke:

quickymart:

I was working for Telecom at the time. I can categorically say they were not aware of it.

I wil take your word on that. Seems to me to be a fundamental issue - the supply of a liscence and that Telecom failed to ask about this beggars belief. But given their Tivo failure comes as no surprise.

There is a more fundamental issue here that is more pressing than your assumption that a) Telecom didn't ask if they planned to pull the plug in 7 years time, or b) that there was collusion between Telecom and Hybrid to rip you off to the tune of $300

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#1744767 20-Mar-2017 20:21

Jaxson:

sbiddle:

Jaxson:

Re the EPG service, does anyone know where TIVO were saucing this from? The standard EPG released is 7 days, but assume this is filled with data looking further out in advance anyway though.

Did TiVo/other party do a deal on the side with channels directly to provide this data, or was it pulled from a standard location. Sony PlayTV was (still is?) doing a similar.

As EPG data was (and still is) regarded as intellectual property by NZ networks Tivo entered into agreements to provide EPG data which they then mangle and provide from their own server. A lack of agreement with Prime and Maori TV meant there was no EPG data for these channels for a couple of years after the launch of Tivo.

Yeah that was my recollection on this also. Point being there may be more agreements to be negotiated over and above just renewing the TiVo service license.

It's proven that the system can work, but moving forward some company would probably need to approach TiVo and see if they could buy the newly released rights to TiVo in NZ, and then start pushing out their own service and hardware.
Given the monumental flop of the first NZ TiVo release, and the general move to on demand services over PVRs (looks like no new Sony or Samsung PVR's exist any more, and most new freeview TV's have freeview plus on board etc), I can't see that being a smart move by anyone.

Shops have a pretty good stance of saying that they have supported their models with a refund if they've failed in the last five years. I can't see cause for any claim against them. They weren't to know that the guide would not be provided from October 2017 when these were sold in 2012, as no one knew then. The only one who may have would be Hybrid, and they don't seem to exist anymore, and aren't NZ based. TiVo certainly aren't NZ based. There's actually no one left to chase and lodge a claim with. Stores can easily say they've done all they can, sold it in good faith at the time and would have stood by the product with a refund if it had failed within the last 5 years.

I think my bolded bits sum it up. No one knew, HybridTV (part owned by TVNZ and OZ) gave it a go, no doubt with confident expectations, but it didn't work out, despite the Tivo love. Maybe too soon, maybe no one would pay a small sub for EPG, clearly no one supported pay tv on FTA then. Maybe if it was sooner (and then wow this is freakin awesome) or later (yes, we pay for stuff now, not before, and I like the features). Perhaps a good product at just the wrong time?

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#1744769 20-Mar-2017 20:25

mattwnz:

Jaxson:

Shops have a pretty good stance of saying that they have supported their models with a refund if they've failed in the last five years. I can't see cause for any claim against them. They weren't to know that the guide would not be provided from October 2017 when these were sold in 2012, as no one knew then. The only one who may have would be Hybrid, and they don't seem to exist anymore, and aren't NZ based. TiVo certainly aren't NZ based. There's actually no one left to chase and lodge a claim with. Stores can easily say they've done all they can, sold it in good faith at the time and would have stood by the product with a refund if it had failed within the last 5 years.

Although isn't that why the CGA says you can either contact the retailer OR the manufacture when making a claim under the CGA, to protect the consumer against either one of the parties going out of business? Who is actually the manufacturer in this case, is it Hybrid Australia? I agree that potentially it is tough on the retailer in this type of situation, and it must happen a bit when manufacturers disappear.

Apart from the tivo, and mysky, the odd PVR, and before that VCRs no other product appears to have had widespread use in NZ, for recording live TV. So I can't see a new product coming in unless it is also going to offer all the streaming options. I can see that the new tivos offer that, but NZ is such a small market, and our consumer laws are quite strict, which could explain why the Fetch box isn't in NZ.

I feel Tivo had a very low reach. MySky is great. The Panny and DishTV (not their fault) have OLD UI, no grid. It seems all about the grid. Why not? Maybe locked out to allow Tivo an exclusive grid? I can see that as FV doesn't compete with Tivo, it would encourage a FTA option. If so, no lockout now

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#1744770 20-Mar-2017 20:26

old3eyes:

As Panasonic license the TiVo software from TiVo US for their branded DVRs it's a pity that they don't bring out a new DVR with the software or is it licensed for one region only??

Are you sure? We see a bland Freeview UI on Panny.

minimoke

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Ultimate Geek

#1744773 20-Mar-2017 20:32

Press Release 13 March 2017

Volkswagen Motor Company

Dear Valued Customer

We are sad to report that we are a bit broke and have decided to stop support of of any vehicles pre 2012 and our engine service is coming to an end in New Zealand on 31 October 2017.

The Engine Service is what delivers mechanical power to your car each day, so without it, there will be no mechanical propulsion and other features such as Exhaust Note and radiator cooling will stop working. For more information on what will and will not work after 31 October see “What does this mean for you and your Volkswagon after 31 October?”. Your Volkswagen car will have extremely limited functionality and we discourage customers from using it after 31 October.

We are glad that when the time comes, you will have been able to enjoy your Volkswagon at least 5 years. We are sure you will find plenty of car transportation alternatives out there, and are contacting you now to make sure you have plenty of time to explore your options by 31 October 2017 and to help make sure your transition is as smooth as possible.

Please think of the environment and dispose of your Volkswagen device at your local car re-cycling facility.

For further information on the end of the Motor Service, please visit www.mystuffedvolswagon.co.nz

We wish you all the best and thank you for your support over the years.

Postscript.

CEO of Volkswagen anticipates no consumer backlash. Despite the notice the Volkswagen remains a fully functioning vehicle. It has a radio that works, lights work, Speedometer works, keeps you dry in the rain and you can still fill it full of petrol. Any disgruntled customers are encouraged to visit www.whirlpool.volkswagonhack.com.au who are said to be working on obtaining ponies to pull these vehicles through the streets. In the meantime wait a year and toss in any old engine and it will be good as gold.

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#1744780 20-Mar-2017 20:37

mattwnz:

old3eyes:

As Panasonic license the TiVo software from TiVo US for their branded DVRs it's a pity that they don't bring out a new DVR with the software or is it licensed for one region only??

What are Panasonics current models in NZ like? My impression of older models were they were quite clunky. You would think the a retailer may start doing a deal on them, although that may not happen until after the closedown date. BUt there will likely be a low amount of stock when that happens.

I find them good.My first was an $1800 PVR, SD, copied lots of videos, worked great. Next was a BWT720, HD, HDMI, has an app, works great. The Freeview UI is clunky and old, no grid but I gather thats a Freeview issue, 1 Nov, maybe that might change? I was going to get a BWT760 and send the 720 to the bedroom to replace the Tivo, but issues with FV+ and black screens @MikeB4

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#1744804 20-Mar-2017 20:38

minimoke:

Jaxson:

I fully agree.

It would be interesting to see exactly when the license was granted, because it seems almost convenient that it's ending 5 years after the last of the units were sold.

I get the feeling that they've paid for the license to end on that date precisely because of the 5 year period.

Where did people buy them from more recently than 5 years ago?

I got mine on total run out from Bond and Bond, and there weren't many left by that stage.

The "five "years isnt a magical CGA five years. Under the CGA it is a timeframe that a reasonable consumer fully acquainted with the state and condition of the goods, including any hidden defects, would regard as acceptable. Could be four years, could be six. Could be 10! Of,course, I think I am a reasonable consumer.

Depends on the circumstances/product behind the CGA claim. Clearly there is a hidden defect - that is the cessation of the licence which consumers weren't aware of. Given Telecom and Spark were hand-in-hand at the Tivo Launch I suspect Telecom did know about it. And consumers wernt fully acquainted at all with the licencing arrangements at the time of the supply - other than being led to believe it was a life time one as confirmed by the System Information screen posted above.

Include intentionally misleading in your argument.

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tdgeek

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#1744806 20-Mar-2017 20:41

bagheera:

itey:

what I don't understand is why they don't do a software update to the unit so that it supports the OTA epg ?

1: it would be a major software change over tivo current software.

2: can the tv card read the mheg stream to get it out?

3: money

And

Tivo has never operated in NZ.

HybridTV did and is now broke

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#1744807 20-Mar-2017 20:42

quickymart:

So, when is the hearing?

1 Nov?

Tickets anyone??? (Sorry OP)

tdgeek

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#1744809 20-Mar-2017 20:45

mattwnz:

Not sure how many people read the story about the person who took the car company to the DT, due to the high price of replacement keys for his car. But I suspect if they had posted on here prior to that, they would have had similar criticism from people on here. Such as 'NZ is such a small market', and 'economies of scale' , and companies can 'charge what they want' etc.

But due to that person standing by their principles, it appears they have potentially created a precedent. As a result there was a story today of someone else who got refunded $1400 for their spare key, as shown at http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/90612919/honda-offers-geraldine-retiree-full-refund-for-1400-key Potentially NZers are now going to save thousands, if not millions, as it appears companies may need to look into the way their price their spare parts.

People please have respect for people posting, as everyone will have different points of view.

I do agree on your last point. But the OP has been quite forthright with his or her preferences and goals, and hopes, and a lot less on facts.

Others here, you included, have been more detailed and neutral. Thats good, we can talk and disagree and say why and so on. But the OP seems to be wearing blinkers.

tdgeek

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#1744810 20-Mar-2017 20:49

minimoke:

quickymart:

I was working for Telecom at the time. I can categorically say they were not aware of it.

I wil take your word on that. Seems to me to be a fundamental issue - the supply of a liscence and that Telecom failed to ask about this beggars belief. But given their Tivo failure comes as no surprise.

Whose Tivo failure? HybridTV used the largest provider to maximise traction, it failed. Its a nice device, and for whatever reason as I have already suggested, it failed. Your blaming the reseller???

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#1744822 20-Mar-2017 20:53

minimoke:

Press Release 13 March 2017

Volkswagen Motor Company

Dear Valued Customer

We are sad to report that we are a bit broke and have decided to stop support of of any vehicles pre 2012 and our engine service is coming to an end in New Zealand on 31 October 2017.

The Engine Service is what delivers mechanical power to your car each day, so without it, there will be no mechanical propulsion and other features such as Exhaust Note and radiator cooling will stop working. For more information on what will and will not work after 31 October see “What does this mean for you and your Volkswagon after 31 October?”. Your Volkswagen car will have extremely limited functionality and we discourage customers from using it after 31 October.

We are glad that when the time comes, you will have been able to enjoy your Volkswagon at least 5 years. We are sure you will find plenty of car transportation alternatives out there, and are contacting you now to make sure you have plenty of time to explore your options by 31 October 2017 and to help make sure your transition is as smooth as possible.

Please think of the environment and dispose of your Volkswagen device at your local car re-cycling facility.

For further information on the end of the Motor Service, please visit www.mystuffedvolswagon.co.nz

We wish you all the best and thank you for your support over the years.

Postscript.

CEO of Volkswagen anticipates no consumer backlash. Despite the notice the Volkswagen remains a fully functioning vehicle. It has a radio that works, lights work, Speedometer works, keeps you dry in the rain and you can still fill it full of petrol. Any disgruntled customers are encouraged to visit www.whirlpool.volkswagonhack.com.au who are said to be working on obtaining ponies to pull these vehicles through the streets. In the meantime wait a year and toss in any old engine and it will be good as gold.

I might ease back on this thread, this appears, IMO, a tad obsessive.

quickymart

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#1744823 20-Mar-2017 20:55

Looks like it.

sbiddle

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#1744847 20-Mar-2017 21:18

minimoke:

quickymart:

I was working for Telecom at the time. I can categorically say they were not aware of it.

I wil take your word on that. Seems to me to be a fundamental issue - the supply of a liscence and that Telecom failed to ask about this beggars belief. But given their Tivo failure comes as no surprise.

I'm not quite sure why you're blaming Telecom. They simply sold the device - they were not the licensee nor where they involved in the negotiations around the product with Tivo. You're not blaming Noel Leeming who also sold the device, nor more importantly TVNZ who were a part owner in Hybrid and were the reason Tivo made it to NZ.

minimoke

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Ultimate Geek

#1744848 20-Mar-2017 21:18

tdgeek:

quickymart:

So, when is the hearing?

1 Nov?

Tickets anyone??? (Sorry OP)

If people want to poke fun at me so be it. I have broad shoulders under this numb skull.

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