Way to shoot yourself in the foot Tivo !

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#256662 17-Sep-2009 21:00

There are MANY places which cannot get Telecom Broadband in New Zealand for many reasons under the sun and just because they cannot get Telecom Broadband (but broadband another way) they will not be able to use the TiVo to its full extent.

Do any other countries who have TiVo limit you to the ISP's you are allowed to connect to to use their service? in AU certain ISP's will zero rate the data yes but they (TiVo) don't tell you you have to actually connect to those ISP's to get the content via them.

Maybe someone will set up a Proxy on Telecom's Network so TiVo users can use their service without using Telecom's Broadband services? or Set up a petition for ppl to sign (http://www.petitiononline.com/TIVO) (yes it was set up via me).

I am 100% other ISP's want to allow their users to use the TiVo and as was said in the News other ISP's have tried to contact TiVo but Tivo don't sound very interested in talking to them for some reason.

Yes its positive for Telecom to get more users to their network. but will it backfire on them?.. TIme will tell...

wellygary

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#256665 17-Sep-2009 21:08

LennonNZ: There are MANY places which cannot get Telecom Broadband in New Zealand for many reasons under the sun and just because they cannot get Telecom Broadband (but broadband another way) they will not be able to use the TiVo to its full extent.

Although, most of those outside the T/Com BB Network, are also outside the Freeview HD coverage region.

bcourtney

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#256672 17-Sep-2009 21:32

LennonNZ: Do any other countries who have TiVo limit you to the ISP's you are allowed to connect to to use their service? in AU certain ISP's will zero rate the data yes but they (TiVo) don't tell you you have to actually connect to those ISP's to get the content via them.

You're dead right there. The AU TiVo website clearly states that ANY internet connection can be used to access the online content.

Considering there are no ISP restrictions in AU and yet they were only able to attract 35,000 users in the last year, how in the world does the NZ offering stack up as a good business case when they're demanding $920 AND restricting you to Telecom if you want any broadband content (which, let's face it, is really the only thing to differentiate the TiVo box from a good Freeview box).

Doesn't make sense to me. Huge win for Telecom - they must be laughing into their drinks right about now. Will be interesting to see if the AU/NZ TiVo CEO is still in her/his job in 12 months time.

kingjj

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#256714 18-Sep-2009 01:43

bcourtney:
kingjj: How is this any different than WxC zero rating traffic for GamePlanet? Or Orcon zero rating traffic from TVNZ on Demand? Or Telstraclear zero rating traffic to its gaming servers? Telecom has the most broadband customers in New Zealand. It makes economical sense for Telecom to host the service and zero rate it for their customers, it will therefore have the greatest reach and Tivo will be able to advertise itself to the biggest broadband market in New Zealand. It would be a waste for them to go with one of the smaller players.

None of this contributes to a valid argument. The issue here isn't that the data is only zero rated if Telecom is your ISP, it's that you don't have access to this side of the TiVo services unless your ISP is Telecom.

Zero-rated or not, I'm sure that there are people out there that would have liked the choice to access the online services provided by the TiVo box regardless of their ISP.

Will be interesting to see whether or not this becomes and anti-competitive case or not. Personally it doesn't bother me as there isn't anything that appeals to me with TiVo but I can imagine there are those that can see a case against TiVo/HybridTV for anti-competitiveness (kind of like if telcos locked phones to their networks I'd have thought...)

Point taken, I miss understood the initial arguement. I'm sure though after the launch and fan fair Tivo will announce other ISP partners, it seems illogical not to.

Balchy

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#256728 18-Sep-2009 08:16

burtz: You only have to ask sky users how many watch the ridiculously priced pay per view movies. Telecom will do exactly the same and price it out of the market and why should they care - the profit potential for Tivo is minimal for them.

Why not team with a hungry ISP like Orcon or Worldxchange who need the extra revenue?

Umm maybe because of the fact that they need extra revenue in the first place, and have a smaller customer base.

Lets see how that would work in the mind of Tivo.

"Hey Mr Ceo, I was thinking, we could partner with Telecom, who have the biggest customer base, and who consistantly post a profit, or I have another fantastic idea! Lets partner with this ISP over here, they look like they are underperforming and could use a boost, not to mention less customer, so we can have more targetted marketing!"

What one would you choose?

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bcourtney

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#256742 18-Sep-2009 09:18

Balchy:
burtz: You only have to ask sky users how many watch the ridiculously priced pay per view movies. Telecom will do exactly the same and price it out of the market and why should they care - the profit potential for Tivo is minimal for them.

Why not team with a hungry ISP like Orcon or Worldxchange who need the extra revenue?

Umm maybe because of the fact that they need extra revenue in the first place, and have a smaller customer base.

Lets see how that would work in the mind of Tivo.

"Hey Mr Ceo, I was thinking, we could partner with Telecom, who have the biggest customer base, and who consistantly post a profit, or I have another fantastic idea! Lets partner with this ISP over here, they look like they are underperforming and could use a boost, not to mention less customer, so we can have more targetted marketing!"

What one would you choose?

Seriously? I'd have my content availble to everyone, no matter what ISP they use. Just like they do in Australia. Sure, they come to some agreement with Telecom whereby Telecom zero-rate the data. This shouldn't mean that all other ISPs are locked out of access to the content anyway though. Very anti-competitive.

Let's be fair, TiVo AU/NZ is not performing that well at all. Well behind on expectations and yet they choose to shoot themselves in the foot further?

My feeling is that Telecom will have asked for exclusive rights for 12 months in exchange for a reduced revenue-share scenario (or perhaps flagging revenue sharing completely)

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Balchy

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#256744 18-Sep-2009 09:23

bcourtney:
Balchy:
burtz: You only have to ask sky users how many watch the ridiculously priced pay per view movies. Telecom will do exactly the same and price it out of the market and why should they care - the profit potential for Tivo is minimal for them.

Why not team with a hungry ISP like Orcon or Worldxchange who need the extra revenue?

Umm maybe because of the fact that they need extra revenue in the first place, and have a smaller customer base.

Lets see how that would work in the mind of Tivo.

"Hey Mr Ceo, I was thinking, we could partner with Telecom, who have the biggest customer base, and who consistantly post a profit, or I have another fantastic idea! Lets partner with this ISP over here, they look like they are underperforming and could use a boost, not to mention less customer, so we can have more targetted marketing!"

What one would you choose?

Seriously? I'd have my content availble to everyone, no matter what ISP they use. Just like they do in Australia. Sure, they come to some agreement with Telecom whereby Telecom zero-rate the data. This shouldn't mean that all other ISPs are locked out of access to the content anyway though. Very anti-competitive.

Let's be fair, TiVo AU/NZ is not performing that well at all. Well behind on expectations and yet they choose to shoot themselves in the foot further?

My feeling is that Telecom will have asked for exclusive rights for 12 months in exchange for a reduced revenue-share scenario (or perhaps flagging revenue sharing completely)

And again, based on your last two sentances, is that not a good business decision, to go with one main partner to increase your own revenue share when your overall business is not performing?

It also makes a lot of business sense to start small and slowly increase the scale of your offering. It reduces your intial overheads, gives you time to adjust your offerings to suit the markets, and allows you to test the water for demand and viability before you roll it out full scale.

I dont really see it as anticompetative, its just another service thats being provided, its not anti competitive for telstraclear to provide its tv service, it wasnt anti competative in the past for telecom to partner with sky...

Just because every business cant provide a service you want doesnt automatically make it anticompetetive

bcourtney

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#256748 18-Sep-2009 09:33

Balchy: And again, based on your last two sentances, is that not a good business decision, to go with one main partner to increase your own revenue share when your overall business is not performing?

It also makes a lot of business sense to start small and slowly increase the scale of your offering. It reduces your intial overheads, gives you time to adjust your offerings to suit the markets, and allows you to test the water for demand and viability before you roll it out full scale.

I dont really see it as anticompetative, its just another service thats being provided, its not anti competitive for telstraclear to provide its tv service, it wasnt anti competative in the past for telecom to partner with sky...

Just because every business cant provide a service you want doesnt automatically make it anticompetetive

I think you're reading me all wrong. I think it's GREAT that they've partnered with Telecom in this way. Should Telecom broadband customers choose to get the product then they've got it good considering the data will be zero-rated. This is a great partnership, no arguments there.

The problem lies with the fact that it's an exclusive partnership. You can only use these extended services if you're with Telecom. From TiVo's point of view I wouldn't have thought that that's a good business decision - it's beyond brilliant for Telecom!!

TiVo is underperforming in AU and all its services are available to anyone with any ISP. Choosing to restrcit your potential customer base in this market just doesn't seem sensible considering we've got some great Freeview products out there already (AU don't have this).

bazzer

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#256763 18-Sep-2009 10:14

I think what Balchy is saying is that it probably worked well for TiVo too. Telecom would have had to cut a pretty good deal for the exclusivity I would have thought, one that benefits TiVo as much as Telecom. Obviously, we're not privy to the details so we may never know.

Balchy

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#256772 18-Sep-2009 10:37

bazzer: I think what Balchy is saying is that it probably worked well for TiVo too. Telecom would have had to cut a pretty good deal for the exclusivity I would have thought, one that benefits TiVo as much as Telecom. Obviously, we're not privy to the details so we may never know.

Yep exactly what I was saying, I was just saying it in a rather long winded way lol

MattJ

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#256791 18-Sep-2009 11:16

How could limiting yourself to one ISP possibly be better than allowing anyone to have access to your service?

Saves me waiting for TiVo though.

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Balchy

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#256792 18-Sep-2009 11:18

MattJ: How could limiting yourself to one ISP possibly be better than allowing anyone to have access to your service?

Saves me waiting for TiVo though.

Read my post, higher revenue share through exclusive partner, less costs, can trial services prior to full roll out, scale it as it becomes profitable rather than sink a whole lot of capital into it up front, a whole lot of reasons really... but as has been said, we may never know details..

rugrat

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#256851 18-Sep-2009 14:07

"Let's be fair, TiVo AU/NZ is not performing that well at all. Well behind on expectations and yet they choose to shoot themselves in the foot further?"

Is TiVo in Australia zero traffic rated with any isp over there?

Also depend on how much the pay per views etc are, which don't know for NZ at moment.

From Australia web site:

* not all broadband plans are suitable for this service; and
* download charges through your Internet service provider are your financial responsibility.

That would slow down uptake of service.

Also:
titles ranging from G to MA15+.

Lot of good R rated movies, no R rated movies on Australian one.

Over there movies are $5.95 or $3.95 for library movies.

bcourtney

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#256852 18-Sep-2009 14:09

rugrat: "Let's be fair, TiVo AU/NZ is not performing that well at all. Well behind on expectations and yet they choose to shoot themselves in the foot further?"

Is TiVo in Australia zero traffic rated with any isp over there?

They've partnered with 3 ISPs for zero-rated data. Service still available on all other ISPs but data is not zero-rated (pay your standard ISP data charges).

Should be like that here

Falconz

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#256977 19-Sep-2009 10:27

What gets me more is that unless your with telecom you dont get the epg guide so the tivo box is relletivly useless.

I certainly understand partnering with isps, it makes sence but to lock it into that one isp is crazy. why not just have warnings pop up saying this download may cost you extra money, or even just allowing the epg guide on all isps.

I was going to buy a tivo, now im not, same as everyone at work. all my friends. Most of them are now looking at mysky hdi

The only reason I can think off why they did it this way is that telecom offered them lots of money.

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