Tivo CGA Claim October 2017

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#1746293 23-Mar-2017 10:16

The closest example I can think of is when a Telco stops using a particular band, rendering any devices using it inoperable.

I recall this happening with Telecom back in the early days of cellphones, around the time that the 025 numbers/system stopped. It's going back a long way now, I don't recall the specifics.

At least in that case there was an alternative service they could offer to customers, but fundamentally it was accepted that the service was going to be switched off on a certain date.

Where this applies here though, is that complaints were with the telco service provider, and not with the company who sold you the phone, that no longer works in NZ.

Everyone involved was annoyed at Telecom, not the warehouse or their decision to purchase a phone that then later on would be useless.

As above, the device still works fine, and you could go back to Telecom/now Spark to complain if the device physically failed, but they'll have an easy out given they don't control the service the device runs on.

Telecom/Spark never provided the service when they sold the hardware. The company that has/had the rights to this in our region looks to have folded (their website no longer works for example) and they're not an NZ company.

The only way I can see this working again here in NZ is a) someone else steps up and buys the now available TiVo rights for distribution here, or b) a crowd sourced effort is able to side load the EPG, either via local redirect or by custom os hack that sends it looking for the data from a new address.

minimoke

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#1746298 23-Mar-2017 10:27

tdgeek:If I look at all my devices, I can't buy them as they are not now for sale. You would therefore expect that Hybrid ceased the sales, knowing that they knew they were going to end it, or had concerns about the future of it. .

Making up, you say stuff then place your arguments about that stuff being correct.

If i look at all of my devices i cant buy any of them any more. I have no expectation on that. But they are all still working. The 25 year old speakers, the 15 year old amp, the 10 year old lap tops, my 9 and 4 year old tv's, my 8 year old blu ray player and my six year old tivo. I expect them all to keep going as they are doing until they eventualy die. Will i make a cga claim when they do? Of course not. They all had a good long life. Except the tivo which comes with a lifetime product licence.

MikeB4

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#1746301 23-Mar-2017 10:33

minimoke:
tdgeek:If I look at all my devices, I can't buy them as they are not now for sale. You would therefore expect that Hybrid ceased the sales, knowing that they knew they were going to end it, or had concerns about the future of it. .

Making up, you say stuff then place your arguments about that stuff being correct.

If i look at all of my devices i cant buy any of them any more. I have no expectation on that. But they are all still working. The 25 year old speakers, the 15 year old amp, the 10 year old lap tops, my 9 and 4 year old tv's, my 8 year old blu ray player and my six year old tivo. I expect them all to keep going as they are doing until they eventualy die. Will i make a cga claim when they do? Of course not. They all had a good long life. Except the tivo which comes with a lifetime product licence.

The licence was for a portion of the software not the device. The vendors Spark were not the licence vendors they were the hardware vendor. There was never a lifetime guarantee on the TiVo and no one would ever expect one. This thread is/has reached the end of its lifetime

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

minimoke

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#1746304 23-Mar-2017 10:39

CYaBro:
minimoke:
Inphinity:

I believe you used a car analogy earlier in the thread, if I recall correctly - so how about a real-world car example. The change from Leaded to Unleaded petrol. I'm pretty sure car manufacturers weren't required to give people new cars for free, though please let me know if they did.

So this analogy will settle this discussion. Great!

Cars could still run on unleaded petrol. For those that didnt, all they needed was a lead additive.

The cars kept on going afterwards so no new car was required.

Did the car companies have to pay for that lead additive?

I think you are pushing the analogy.
Car companies did not pay. A hack was made available by the industry at a very small dosage cost.

The alternative was a very cheap technical tweak to adjust a cars timing. (Something even a back yard mechanuc could do)

A bit more expensive (but a very small portion of the overall valye of the car) with the really old vintage cars was a new set of valves installed by a professional

Options were made available by the industry to keep cars going with all the available features at little cost to the consumer

Jaxson

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#1746305 23-Mar-2017 10:41

minimoke: the tivo which comes with a lifetime product licence.

I do think that's the issue here for you. The service lifetime is up, and you can't chase the provider of that, as they're a) an international company and b) look to have folded now. Hybrid don't look to exist, so you can't chase them at all.

Telecom/Spark only sold you the hardware, which they would be liable for if it had failed.

minimoke

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#1746307 23-Mar-2017 10:48

MikeB4:
minimoke:
tdgeek:If I look at all my devices, I can't buy them as they are not now for sale. You would therefore expect that Hybrid ceased the sales, knowing that they knew they were going to end it, or had concerns about the future of it. .

Making up, you say stuff then place your arguments about that stuff being correct.

If i look at all of my devices i cant buy any of them any more. I have no expectation on that. But they are all still working. The 25 year old speakers, the 15 year old amp, the 10 year old lap tops, my 9 and 4 year old tv's, my 8 year old blu ray player and my six year old tivo. I expect them all to keep going as they are doing until they eventualy die. Will i make a cga claim when they do? Of course not. They all had a good long life. Except the tivo which comes with a lifetime product licence.

The licence was for a portion of the software not the device. The vendors Spark were not the licence vendors they were the hardware vendor. There was never a lifetime guarantee on the TiVo and no one would ever expect one. This thread is/has reached the end of its lifetime

There is so much confusion.

From this thread i have learnt the licence is for a service - now you are saying its for the software. Well the software is still in the box.

The consumer did not buy a licence. They bought a media device - says so on my reciept..

The tivo has a product lifetime service - says so on the system information screen.

For as long as you keep giving the thread will stay alive.

Dyson

Shop now for Dyson appliances (affiliate link).

tdgeek

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#1746308 23-Mar-2017 10:52

minimoke:
tdgeek:If I look at all my devices, I can't buy them as they are not now for sale. You would therefore expect that Hybrid ceased the sales, knowing that they knew they were going to end it, or had concerns about the future of it. .

Making up, you say stuff then place your arguments about that stuff being correct.

If i look at all of my devices i cant buy any of them any more. I have no expectation on that. But they are all still working. The 25 year old speakers, the 15 year old amp, the 10 year old lap tops, my 9 and 4 year old tv's, my 8 year old blu ray player and my six year old tivo. I expect them all to keep going as they are doing until they eventualy die. Will i make a cga claim when they do? Of course not. They all had a good long life. Except the tivo which comes with a lifetime product licence.

Have you got all the T+C's for those devicves, that you signed for each?

You cannot seem to comprehend that the Tivo box is seperate from the Tivo service. hence why there is a T+C for each

So what is your stance if you bought the Tivo from Telecom, then paid a one off lifetime fee to Hybrid when you activated the Tivo service supplied by Hybrid?

tdgeek

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#1746309 23-Mar-2017 10:55

minimoke:
MikeB4:

minimoke:
tdgeek:If I look at all my devices, I can't buy them as they are not now for sale. You would therefore expect that Hybrid ceased the sales, knowing that they knew they were going to end it, or had concerns about the future of it. .

Making up, you say stuff then place your arguments about that stuff being correct.

If i look at all of my devices i cant buy any of them any more. I have no expectation on that. But they are all still working. The 25 year old speakers, the 15 year old amp, the 10 year old lap tops, my 9 and 4 year old tv's, my 8 year old blu ray player and my six year old tivo. I expect them all to keep going as they are doing until they eventualy die. Will i make a cga claim when they do? Of course not. They all had a good long life. Except the tivo which comes with a lifetime product licence.

The licence was for a portion of the software not the device. The vendors Spark were not the licence vendors they were the hardware vendor. There was never a lifetime guarantee on the TiVo and no one would ever expect one. This thread is/has reached the end of its lifetime

There is so much confusion.

From this thread i have learnt the licence is for a service - now you are saying its for the software. Well the software is still in the box.

The consumer did not buy a licence. They bought a media device - says so on my reciept..

The tivo has a product lifetime service - says so on the system information screen.

For as long as you keep giving the thread will stay alive.

Good advice MM

minimoke

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#1746347 23-Mar-2017 12:13

Have you got all the T+C's for those devicves, that you signed for each?

You cannot seem to comprehend that the Tivo box is seperate from the Tivo service. hence why there is a T+C for each

So what is your stance if you bought the Tivo from Telecom, then paid a one off lifetime fee to Hybrid when you activated the Tivo service supplied by Hybrid?

Para 1 = irrelevant

Para 2. On the contrary. It is you who do not seem to comprehend i bought a tivo box which included the service.

Para 3= hypothetical. But an off the cuff response would be if i bought a box from telecom i would expect a reasonable life. Part of that judgement would be on reputation of box partners (telecom / tvnz and an unknown hybrid) as well as price of box ($920 less add ons) and reliability of brand.

As for the one off fee (given there are no known terms) for a lifetime service then i would expect this to last the lifetime of the box or my account unless terms said orherwise. I would not expect the licence to be withdrawn at an arbitrary 5 years. I would expect to loose the licence if the provider went bust. But in this case hybrid are not saying that, and any way tivo is still around which would have given me some confort behind the fee i paid.

Further to that i am not sure i would have purchased a box with a seperate licence - another link in a chain that could go wrong. But i would measure that risk against fee paid. Given hybrid was an unknown australian i probably would have steered clear. Given telecom is one of nz biggest companies i would likely have bought a licence from them.

minimoke

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#1746393 23-Mar-2017 13:17

Jaxson:
The closest example I can think of is when a Telco stops using a particular band, rendering any devices using it inoperable.

I recall this happening with Telecom back in the early days of cellphones, around the time that the 025 numbers/system stopped. It's going back a long way now, I don't recal

I can work with this as well.

Back in the day the 025 network had been around for decades. And yes at some point all good things come to an end. So if you had 20 years life on a mobile phone you had done well as many had. There was even some angst on geekzone about the 10 year old phone that was now a brick.

But in the day customers had an option of an arguably better service.

And most importantly telecom customers were offered discounted upgrades to help meet their needs.

And you could look at the CDMA network - over 3 years notice given on that change when phones had s reasonable life expectancy of 3 years. At the time telecom offered $0 up front XT phone offers and a $79 top up on prepaid.

mattwnz

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#1746398 23-Mar-2017 13:32

This thread is nearly as long as the original one about them closing down. A pity it wasn't combined with that thread, as it would be one of the bigger ones on here. Obviously won't beat the Trump thread though.

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#1746409 23-Mar-2017 13:46

minimoke:

Have you got all the T+C's for those devicves, that you signed for each?

You cannot seem to comprehend that the Tivo box is seperate from the Tivo service. hence why there is a T+C for each

So what is your stance if you bought the Tivo from Telecom, then paid a one off lifetime fee to Hybrid when you activated the Tivo service supplied by Hybrid?

Para 1 = irrelevant

Para 2. On the contrary. It is you who do not seem to comprehend i bought a tivo box which included the service.

Para 3= hypothetical. But an off the cuff response would be if i bought a box from telecom i would expect a reasonable life. Part of that judgement would be on reputation of box partners (telecom / tvnz and an unknown hybrid) as well as price of box ($920 less add ons) and reliability of brand.

As for the one off fee (given there are no known terms) for a lifetime service then i would expect this to last the lifetime of the box or my account unless terms said orherwise. I would not expect the licence to be withdrawn at an arbitrary 5 years. I would expect to loose the licence if the provider went bust. But in this case hybrid are not saying that, and any way tivo is still around which would have given me some confort behind the fee i paid.

Further to that i am not sure i would have purchased a box with a seperate licence - another link in a chain that could go wrong. But i would measure that risk against fee paid. Given hybrid was an unknown australian i probably would have steered clear. Given telecom is one of nz biggest companies i would likely have bought a licence from them.

Para 1 is not irrelevant as you keep referring to not having and signing the T+C's, now you wish to brush that aside

You did purchase a box with two parts, as outlined in the T+C's. You couldnt have bought a licence from Telecom anyway as they dont manage the service, just the box, as outlined in the T+V's, go to "Hybrid for their T+C's"

Had Telecom sold the box that included said licence, and it managed and looked after that licence, nothing changes, both are over 5 years old on 1 Nov. So for arguments sake I agree with you, the box and all its contents fall outside of what Hybrid have deemed acceptable to consumer law. The box, began in 2009 its an 8 year vintage now, and still is if your purchased it 5 years ago, its a 5yo 8yo device, both very old in todays tech world, it has met its life expectancy. Like your older devices it will likely contiinue to work as many old things do, apart from Hybrids service, which has also met consumer law, but is being turned off

tdgeek

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#1746429 23-Mar-2017 14:01

mattwnz:

This thread is nearly as long as the original one about them closing down. A pity it wasn't combined with that thread, as it would be one of the bigger ones on here. Obviously won't beat the Trump thread though.

Yep, I'm out, as per the pic further back it's a dog with a bone issue. Advice isnt wanted, just agreement

minimoke

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#1746458 23-Mar-2017 15:10

tdgeek:
Para 1 is not irrelevant as you keep referring to not having and signing the T+C's, now you wish to brush that aside

You did purchase a box with two parts, as outlined in the T+C's. You couldnt have bought a licence from Telecom anyway as they dont manage the service, just the box, as outlined in the T+V's, go to "Hybrid for their T+C's"

Had Telecom sold the box that included said licence, and it managed and looked after that licence, nothing changes, both are over 5 years old on 1 Nov. So for arguments sake I agree with you, the box and all its contents fall outside of what Hybrid have deemed acceptable to consumer law. The box, began in 2009 its an 8 year vintage now, and still is if your purchased it 5 years ago, its a 5yo 8yo device, both very old in todays tech world, it has met its life expectancy. Like your older devices it will likely contiinue to work as many old things do, apart from Hybrids service, which has also met consumer law, but is being turned off

Para 1. I can discuss all my other ts and cs but really i think people will find it un helpful

Para 2. There is no seperate licence. The tivo terms cover the use of the media device; the activation and use of the service. The only place licence is mentioned is home network licence (i dont have HNP), software licence for software delivered to tivo from time to time (i guess this is for somthing like acess to netflix or a new game) and open source
licences. But no mention anywhwre of a service licence

Para 3. So if the box etc was three years old do you think you would have a claim?

Journeyman

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#1746473 23-Mar-2017 15:14

So... Hypothetically, let's assume that you asked Spark for compensation for the tivo box which you say is... broken, or faulty or whatever word you claim is appropriate. Spark agrees (hypothetically) that it owes you some money.

How much money do you realistically expect to receive?

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