Solar options for home in 2022

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#3418815 25-Sep-2025 18:08

HarmLessSolutions:

MikeFly:

fastbike:

You would be required to do an apportionment of the total output and then only claim finance/depreciation on the portion that can be exported for income.

That explains it better. I don't think they are both income streams, only export is.

We benefit the tune of $400/month by way of reduced electricity spending due to self consumption, separate from our export. In most comparable economic gains the IRD consider that to be income by way of deferred costs. "Income stream" may not be a totally accurate definition but then nor is it for employer rent subsidisation, company supplied vehicles or under the table produce supplied to workers but IRD see them that way.

I wouldn't classify the self consumption of electricity as income as such, it's more closely aligned with having a vegetable garden for self consumption. It would be more likely that you would/could only claim depreciation in line with the % of panels required to generate the exported excess. - This is the whole reason they they say compliance costs would be too high and want to make the updates as posted earlier.

MikeFly

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#3418817 25-Sep-2025 18:18

HarmLessSolutions:

We benefit the tune of $400/month by way of reduced electricity spending due to self consumption, separate from our export. In most comparable economic gains the IRD consider that to be income by way of deferred costs. "Income stream" may not be a totally accurate definition but then nor is it for employer rent subsidisation, company supplied vehicles or under the table produce supplied to workers but IRD see them that way.

Be good to get GZ member who is an accountant or tax consultant to comment, but as far as I can see, this means you should be taxed on growing your own veges, making your own clothes etc?

Stu

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#3418818 25-Sep-2025 18:21

MikeFly:

Be good to get GZ member who is an accountant or tax consultant to comment, but as far as I can see, this means you should be taxed on growing your own veges, making your own clothes etc?

I was just thinking of typing this same comment, but decided I didn't want to give the government any ideas!

People often mistake me for an adult because of my age.

Keep calm, and carry on posting.

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Handle9

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#3418820 25-Sep-2025 18:42

HarmLessSolutions:

But also differentiating exported generation from that which is self consumed. They're both essentially income streams but quantifying the 'invisable' behind the meter self consumption is near impossible.

Nope. One is income, one is not.

Handle9

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#3418822 25-Sep-2025 18:43

HarmLessSolutions:

MikeFly:

Why is self consumed an income stream?

Because you're still deriving financial benefit from it. To deny that is like justifying not paying for the produce you consume before you get to the supermarket checkout. FBT on vehicles is all about the transport benefits company vehicles provide in respect of not using your own vehicle so what's different.

It's entirely different. FBT is a tax on a benefit an employer gives you. Consuming something you produce yourself does not create a tax liability.

Handle9

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#3418823 25-Sep-2025 18:45

MikeFly:

HarmLessSolutions:

We benefit the tune of $400/month by way of reduced electricity spending due to self consumption, separate from our export. In most comparable economic gains the IRD consider that to be income by way of deferred costs. "Income stream" may not be a totally accurate definition but then nor is it for employer rent subsidisation, company supplied vehicles or under the table produce supplied to workers but IRD see them that way.

Be good to get GZ member who is an accountant or tax consultant to comment, but as far as I can see, this means you should be taxed on growing your own veges, making your own clothes etc?

There is really no need to have an accountant comment.

@harmlesssolutions should produce evidence in law to support his assertions otherwise they can be ignored.

Handle9

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#3418824 25-Sep-2025 18:46

HarmLessSolutions:

We benefit the tune of $400/month by way of reduced electricity spending due to self consumption, separate from our export. In most comparable economic gains the IRD consider that to be income by way of deferred costs.

Citation required of where IRD consider costs avoided to be taxable.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3418826 25-Sep-2025 18:49

MikeFly:

HarmLessSolutions:

We benefit the tune of $400/month by way of reduced electricity spending due to self consumption, separate from our export. In most comparable economic gains the IRD consider that to be income by way of deferred costs. "Income stream" may not be a totally accurate definition but then nor is it for employer rent subsidisation, company supplied vehicles or under the table produce supplied to workers but IRD see them that way.

Be good to get GZ member who is an accountant or tax consultant to comment, but as far as I can see, this means you should be taxed on growing your own veges, making your own clothes etc?

The difference being is that the examples I gave relate to items that are supplied in lieu of income which would otherwise be taxed. The point in question here is whether exported generation, which is a potential income, should be treated the same tax wise as the generation that is self consumed. I agree that expert comment would be helpful on this issue.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Handle9

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#3418827 25-Sep-2025 18:58

PolicyGuy:

MikeFly:

Yes, but they are not going to tax export revenue.

And that's one part of why they are going to declare it tax exempt income - it would open a very large can of accounting worms.
To quote from the Bill "High compliance costs may also arise from apportionment issues due to the private limitation on deductions."

BTW for the more masochistic of us, here's the actual text of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025–26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill https://legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2025/0199/latest/whole.html

To also quote from the bill:

"Inland Revenue has indicated that, although dependent on the particular facts and legal arrangements, in many cases amounts derived from the sale of excess electricity are likely to be assessable income."

You'll notice that the bill talks about sale of excess electricity. It doesn't talk about self consumed electricity in any way because that is not taxable income.

Handle9

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#3418831 25-Sep-2025 19:13

HarmLessSolutions:

The difference being is that the examples I gave relate to items that are supplied in lieu of income which would otherwise be taxed.

The examples were all benefits from an employer to an employee. They are not at all comparable.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3418832 25-Sep-2025 19:14

Handle9:

HarmLessSolutions:

We benefit the tune of $400/month by way of reduced electricity spending due to self consumption, separate from our export. In most comparable economic gains the IRD consider that to be income by way of deferred costs.

Citation required of where IRD consider costs avoided to be taxable.

Solar generation gains would seem to fail on many of these conditions hobby vs business. But best kept in mind that the discussion we are arguing here is differentiating whether the portion you self consume with a resulting financial gain should be considered taxable, prior to exported generation being litigated not so.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Handle9

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#3418833 25-Sep-2025 19:19

HarmLessSolutions:

Handle9:

Citation required of where IRD consider costs avoided to be taxable.

Solar generation gains would seem to fail on many of these conditions hobby vs business. But best kept in mind that the discussion we are arguing here is differentiating whether the portion you self consume with a resulting financial gain should be considered taxable, prior to exported generation being litigated not so.

Citation still required of where IRD consider costs avoided to be taxable.

MikeFly

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#3418835 25-Sep-2025 19:32

HarmLessSolutions:

But best kept in mind that the discussion we are arguing here is differentiating whether the portion you self consume with a resulting financial gain should be considered taxable, prior to exported generation being litigated not so.

So shagging at home should be taxable when there are paid options out on the street?

Handle9

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#3418836 25-Sep-2025 19:34

MikeFly:

HarmLessSolutions:

But best kept in mind that the discussion we are arguing here is differentiating whether the portion you self consume with a resulting financial gain should be considered taxable, prior to exported generation being litigated not so.

So shagging at home should be taxable when there are paid options out on the street?

Or cooking a meal would be taxable.

DjShadow

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#3418841 25-Sep-2025 20:20

I got my new system finally activated by the electrical inspector this morning. Installed by Lightforce, its 14 panels with Enphase IQ7A micro-inverters under each panel, had to go this direction as we have a chimney that will cause shading plus the house 2 doors up is on a small hill with very tall trees so we get shade problems in the late afternoon.

I did ask a few different installers but Lightforce were the only crowd that had a sales rep visit to have a close look at our situation to come up with a design.

Workmanship is very good and tidy. Only downside is their Operations team just felt very unorganized where I was on the assumption it would be installed in 3 concurrent days but turned out to be 5 days over the space of a month. Their QA team dropped the ball also as we were meant to have 15 panels but had to go 14 as the whole west side of our house couldn’t support 12 panels (got 3 on the north face, all that can fit) so this caused more delays.

Don’t have the final invoice yet but was looking at $18k for 15 panels so hopefully no surprises invoice time.

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