New tenancy laws coming into effect Feb 11 2021

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#2632564 8-Jan-2021 19:31

sir1963:

ROTFLMAO, you think proof is all the police need ?

My dealings with police has been less about the proof but more about if they could be bothered.

Break-in ? Here is a number for your insurance company all over the phone, no one will visit.

Fraud on Trademe, gave them all the information and got "That person is well know to us, but we will not do anything, bye"

7-10 days before they would finger print 4 cars broken into on our street.

Someone parking in my parking spot blocking me out..".if you remove it we will do you for illegal interference , no we won't remove it, no we won't say who it belongs to, no you can not tresspass a car"

Police... unless its a cup of tea of tea tape... they are useless.

There's not much they can do about a break-in that's already happened - unlikely to be any evidence that would lead to an arrest or anything remotely helpful.

Fraud on TradeMe, I might have expected more than that but I would imagine this isn't the full story.

Historic break-ins - probably not a lot they can do beyond fingerprinting, and surely this is just a result of needing to prioritise more urgent/important stuff?

Why on earth would the Police would be concerned about someone in a car park? This is surely an issue for either whoever runs the carpark, your body corporate, or your local council/transport authority?

The Police are not your personal referees to resolve any and all disputes or issues you come across.

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#2632580 8-Jan-2021 20:03

antonknee:

There's not much they can do about a break-in that's already happened - unlikely to be any evidence that would lead to an arrest or anything remotely helpful.

Fraud on TradeMe, I might have expected more than that but I would imagine this isn't the full story.

Historic break-ins - probably not a lot they can do beyond fingerprinting, and surely this is just a result of needing to prioritise more urgent/important stuff?

Why on earth would the Police would be concerned about someone in a car park? This is surely an issue for either whoever runs the carpark, your body corporate, or your local council/transport authority?

The Police are not your personal referees to resolve any and all disputes or issues you come across.

Actually, anyone can park in your driveway and there is little to nothing you can do about it.

You cannot tow them, clamp them, you are breaking the law at that point.

alasta

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#2632585 8-Jan-2021 20:43

antonknee:

Oh I'm quite certain it happens and not just once in a blue moon. But I would say if a tenancy has ended up at Tribunal then clearly something has already gone wrong and it's self-selecting for the worst cases. I would also say that there are ~600000 renters in NZ, the number assaulting their landlords cannot be a huge proportion of that.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that it's anything more than a very small minority of tenants, but it is a very serious situation and the consequences can be devastating for the victim.

Wom

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#2633634 11-Jan-2021 14:09

sir1963:

antonknee:

Why on earth would the Police would be concerned about someone in a car park? This is surely an issue for either whoever runs the carpark, your body corporate, or your local council/transport authority?

Actually, anyone can park in your driveway and there is little to nothing you can do about it.

You cannot tow them, clamp them, you are breaking the law at that point.

you absolutely can get them towed for parking on your private property

that includes a car park that you lease if it's a specific reserved space (ie parking spot #34 at ABC Parking Building)

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#2633642 11-Jan-2021 14:21

Wom:

you absolutely can get them towed for parking on your private property

that includes a car park that you lease if it's a specific reserved space (ie parking spot #34 at ABC Parking Building)

That is NOT what the local towing company said, and that's NOT what the local police said.

Unless you have notices saying unauthorised vehicles will be towed, the can't. It is illegal interfering with a vehicle, or motor vehicle theft.

mattwnz

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#2633650 11-Jan-2021 14:30

I saw a headline yesterday (story behind a paywall) about a landlord may just leave their houses empty with the new rules. I am wondering that along with the brightline test of 5 years, if this isn't going to create more and more ghost houses, and restrict supply even more. We don't know how many ghost houses there are in NZ but I was listening to property podcast from Australia, who was discussing NZs housing bubble, and they did say that that they think there are already enough houses in NZ, and plenty are under construction, but many are not being lived in. If the brightline test is 5 years, those that purchased today by investors who have not intention of renting it out, but are using it for a store of wealth and for capital gains, the public would have to wait until at least 2026 for those houses to be able to be sold again, if the buyer doesn't want to pay tax. Although why would they sell at the moment when property is doing so well. I wonder if the politicians thought about that. NZs main problem is a supply problem, with historic low levels of properties being listed for sale. .

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sir1963

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#2633658 11-Jan-2021 14:55

mattwnz:

I saw a headline yesterday (story behind a paywall) about a landlord may just leave their houses empty with the new rules. I am wondering that along with the brightline test of 5 years, if this isn't going to create more and more ghost houses, and restrict supply even more. We don't know how many ghost houses there are in NZ but I was listening to property podcast from Australia, who was discussing NZs housing bubble, and they did say that that they think there are already enough houses in NZ, and plenty are under construction, but many are not being lived in. If the brightline test is 5 years, those that purchased today by investors who have not intention of renting it out, but are using it for a store of wealth and for capital gains, the public would have to wait until at least 2026 for those houses to be able to be sold again, if the buyer doesn't want to pay tax. Although why would they sell at the moment when property is doing so well. I wonder if the politicians thought about that. NZs main problem is a supply problem, with historic low levels of properties being listed for sale. .

Also, add into this the number of houses that will become available when COVID goes away. A large proportion of those that came back for safety will head back overseas for better wages, along with a large number of younger people off for their first OE.

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#2633995 12-Jan-2021 01:05

Technofreak:

mattwnz:

IMO NZ needs a ghost house tax, and to make sure our housing stock is all used, unless there is good reason for a house to be empty.

You can be sure there will be good reasons. A ghost tax, while it has merit, would be almost impossible to police. A lot of bureaucracy and cost for no benefit.

And also, if I own my house, I should be free to do what I like with it. One man's ghost house is another man's rarely used holiday home.

Next you'll be saying that if I am not using my car on a Tuesday, the hobo down the road should get to use it or I should be taxed for not using it myself.

[Edit: Now reading the entire thread - I now see I've made the exact same point as @Handsomedan]

mattwnz

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#2633996 12-Jan-2021 01:44

Wheelbarrow01:

Technofreak:

You can be sure there will be good reasons. A ghost tax, while it has merit, would be almost impossible to police. A lot of bureaucracy and cost for no benefit.

And also, if I own my house, I should be free to do what I like with it. One man's ghost house is another man's rarely used holiday home.

Next you'll be saying that if I am not using my car on a Tuesday, the hobo down the road should get to use it or I should be taxed for not using it myself.

[Edit: Now reading the entire thread - I now see I've made the exact same point as @Handsomedan]

Yes people are free to leave their houses empty and sit on them for capital gains. I may do the same thing if I owned investment properties and decided that it was now going to be too difficult to rent them out with all these changes. But that doesn't mean councils or government can't rate or tax properties more, that are left empty without a good reason. Especially when this is a 'housing crisis' situation, and there are people who don't have a house to live in. As a result of not enough houses available, all tax payers are spending many millions to house these people in emergency housing including motels etc, even though we do likely enough empty houses to house those 20k people.. I recall one of the reasons for banning overseas buyers was because some were doing the same thing, and buying property and then leaving it empty for much of the time.

There are also other potential costs related to leaving houses empty, including insurance and tax etc . This is discussed in this article today about this very topic https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/tenancy-law-overhaul-kickback-to-landlords-threat-to-leave-homes-empty/MGW6VAWUCN2K2KD57VCH34MJ5E/

If you think about it, if say 5-10% of houses in a town are not being lived in, then it means that if in the future they do reach full occupancy again, it may cause resource problems in that town, with water , sewage, power, schools, hospitals etc, as it then increases usage of those services, even though house numbers haven't increased. That can have big costs for councils, as building new infrastructure is expensive and that money has to come from somewhere. Also it can change the social fabric of an area to have a good percentage of house left empty.

Also as per this article, ghost house tax does appear to work. After extra tax was imposed on empty houses in Camden, the number of vacant homes dropped by 34% https://www.shareable.net/the-ghost-house-tax-bringing-vacant-houses-back-to-life/ So I would disagree that it wouldn't have a benefit, as it does appear to increase supply.

Are there any numbers of how many vacant houses there are in NZ, apart from the old census numbers, and estimates of 100-200k? I am not sure if NZ has a housing shortage, so much as a lack of available supply, because there are a heck of a lot of houses being built and the net increase of the population in NZ isn't much at the moment. Post Covid, I suspect they will turn on the tap again.

But as the government promised no new taxes this term, I can't see how they can impose a new tax, unless they declare a 'housing emergency', or a 'reset' . But they are likely going to have to do something, because house prices can't keep rising as much as they are. Building state houses, and not shoeboxes on postage stamp sections which many people don't want, could be a way ahead. House prices inflation is now such a big part of NZs economy, that I think the government are going to need to rebalance the tax system to account for this, which may ultimately lead to more tax around property. NZ has plenty of land, and potentially a lot of unused houses, and we grow building materials. So we shouldn't have a housing crisis, and we shouldn't have one of the biggest property bubbles .

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#2634028 12-Jan-2021 08:40

The question of a housing shortage is a good one. We have homeless who choose to be homeless, we do have social housing needs that causes families to crowd houses. These two sectors aren't buyers. If we had a true housing shortage and we are 100,000 houses light, why aren't 100,000 families living in parks? Maybe the issue is the people that can buy, there aren't enough sellers?

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#2634033 12-Jan-2021 08:43

tdgeek:

If we had a true housing shortage and we are 100,000 houses light, why aren't 100,000 families living in parks? Maybe the issue is the people that can buy, there aren't enough sellers?

Because they are living in cars, garages and overcrowded houses.

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#2634037 12-Jan-2021 08:46

I'd like to know the actual numbers living in cars, garages and hotels paid for by the government now.

tdgeek

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#2634045 12-Jan-2021 08:54

alasta:

Because they are living in cars, garages and overcrowded houses.

If there are 100,000 families living in cars garages and overcrowded houses Id like to see those stats. Thats would be highly newsworthy and click worthy. But we only read about those that want to buy but there aren't enough houses for sale? There are plenty of houses for sale. But they are often too far away, wrong area, too small, too big, not the right features, so for me, there are hardly any houses for me that I would buy. So I may bid more, or offer more, or up the tender letter I post in. Prices have then increased. But still, everyone has a roof over there head. Not saying this is the NZ situation but Im sure of there were 100,000 families, i.e. 400,000 people with no real roof over there head, it would be huge news, but it isn't.

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#2634046 12-Jan-2021 08:56

networkn:

I'd like to know the actual numbers living in cars, garages and hotels paid for by the government now.

Not sure on that. The stats for the last 20 years would be interesting, as would the stats for social housing numbers.

tdgeek

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#2634056 12-Jan-2021 08:59

In any case, its just a thought. There are many people who can never afford to buy. Many that dont want to buy. That leaves the ones that can afford to buy (i.e.not poor) but not many houses available, prices rise. But we dont appear to be a in not enough roofs for the people problem, possibly.

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