Question about building consent and a kitset shed

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mattwnz

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#112818 21-Dec-2012 19:47

We purchased a kitset shed a few years ago and have only just got around to arranging to get it setup. We submitted an application for building consent with the council. It was a large shed, so needed building consent. However the council have declined the application because they said the shed and the structural calculations for it, are for a low wind zone property and the property is in a high wind zone. They want me to get an engineer out to the site to test the wind speed and submit site specific calculations for the shed. However the kitset shed was sold to us as being suitable for a high wind zone, and it was one of the first things we checked with them, as we know it is a windy area. The company we purchased it from says they have never had any problem with other councils, but say if our council needs these calculations to be done, we will need to pay for it from a engineer, which will probably be at least $500 and take over a month to do. I had planned to assemble this over the xmas break, and had submitted my consent to council quite a long time ago, not expecting this sort of problem. We have been discussing this with them over the last few weeks. Do people think we should have to pay for this extra engineering calculations to be done, considering they sold it to us as being suitable for a very windy property? If it was sold as suitable for a high wind zone property, would it have been reasonable to expect that the structural calcualtions for it would be for a high wind zone too? Building consent by itself cost over $500, which is more than I paid for the house one 10 years ago.

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#736148 21-Dec-2012 19:49

Please use the appropriate sub forum for home improvement discussions. Moved this time, next will be removed.

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mattwnz

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#736150 21-Dec-2012 19:53

I can't see any 'home improvement' section?

freitasm

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#736151 21-Dec-2012 19:54

The section I just moved this topic to. Just look at all the other topics in this section.

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mattwnz

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#736152 21-Dec-2012 19:57

freitasm: The section I just moved this topic to. Just look at all the other topics in this section.

OK, it's under the ;'Entertainment' Section. Didn't think it fitted into that category, as it isn't entertainment. This is related to building consents and consumer law.

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#736153 21-Dec-2012 19:59

This topic fits into "Home Workshop".

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scuwp

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#736163 21-Dec-2012 21:09

1. Councils are fickle, and standards change over time. You need to establish if the shed design met the minimum standards for your area when you brought it.

2. If the above answer is yes, then you have no choice if you want to erect the shed but to comply with the current councils standards they demand of you.

3. If the answer above is no, and it was made clear to the retailer at the time of purchase where the shed was to be erected, and they made assurances that it met standards, then I would be looking at the retailer for a replacement shed that meets the minimum standards, or a refund as it was not fit for purpose.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

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mattwnz

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#736175 21-Dec-2012 22:17

scuwp: 1. Councils are fickle, and standards change over time. You need to establish if the shed design met the minimum standards for your area when you brought it.

Thanks for your reply. The wind standards haven't changed since it was purchased as the NZS 3604 map for the area is the same, and it wasn't a low wind area prior to the purchase, as it has always been a high/very high wind area. I can understand the council, as if it did fail due to wind loads, they would be liable for approving it.
The problem is that the shed was sold by the manufacturer and it is a large garage size, and if I went down the refund route, I doubt they would also want to refund the $500 for the building consent. It would be cheaper for them just to pay for the engineering work. But I think they should have offered that free initially, rather than tryng to get us to pay for it, ehich I think is a cheeky, as they will be able to use that for their other customers who have this problem when getting building consent in a high wind zone. They did say they were over engineered, and were installed throughout Wellington which is known to be one of the windiest areas in NZ, and they were never challenged by the Wellington council for the engineering. But I don't think that is the point.

Goosey

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#736219 22-Dec-2012 08:42

Wind speeds change depending on the buildings and their shapes nearby. Do you think the council knows the contours of the buildings nearby and as such have requested this assessment to be completed (they may be concerned about potential wind tunnels or affects to the neibouring property).

Your building could stand the elements of the wind but potentially causing grief for your neighbours.

scuwp

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#736221 22-Dec-2012 08:50

If you are paying for the engineering report, then it is your property. The seller has no right to receive a copy or use it in the course of their business without your express permission.

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mattwnz

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#736363 22-Dec-2012 16:06

Gooseybhai: Wind speeds change depending on the buildings and their shapes nearby. Do you think the council knows the contours of the buildings nearby and as such have requested this assessment to be completed (they may be concerned about potential wind tunnels or affects to the neibouring property).

Your building could stand the elements of the wind but potentially causing grief for your neighbours.

That is all covered by NZS3604, which allows you to calculate the wind zone for a particular site. It is a rural property so no neighbors.
The problem is that even if someone comes out to check the site for wind speeds unless they actually comes on a windy day, or at it's worst, it is a bit of a waste of time.

mattwnz

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#736366 22-Dec-2012 16:16

scuwp: If you are paying for the engineering report, then it is your property. The seller has no right to receive a copy or use it in the course of their business without your express permission.

Agree. Although really the calculations that need to be done will just be done for a higher wind speed, so they will be fairly generic. This is why the manufacturer should pay, as then it can be used for other high wind zones area, if they are advertising it being suitable for such areas. They don't have any calculations to prove it is actually suitable, yet they advertised it to us as being suitable.
The thing is that the council has said that the existing producer statement and engineers calculations are for a low wind zone. The same exact sheds are being sold today, and we supplied the council with a producer statement that is less than 12 months old, which says it has only been designed for a low wind area. Yet we were told by the manufacturer that it that it would be fine for a high wind area. We weren't aware however at the time that the engineers calculations were only for a low wind area. The manufacturer has said that the council is being finicky, but they are probably just following the law. If it is this difficult to get consent for a simple kitset shed, no wonder houses aren't being built in NZ due to all the compliance costs and hassles with council. I suppose this is all a result of the leaky building crisis.

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#737704 27-Dec-2012 14:36

If the retailer said it was for a high wind zone and did not supply the calculations then who can tell if it complies or not.

If you got that info from the manufacturer and purchased from a retailer your problem is with the manufacturer.

Either way you are looking at the disputes tribunal process if neither is helping you out of the issue.

My guess is the actual wind speed/level in your location does not need to be determined with any accuracy. It is the engineering rating of the shed that will count. You have some info already like dimensions and fixing and that should be enough for an engineer to calculate from. I'd ring around and discuss it before you guess the price and time.

Niel

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#740110 4-Jan-2013 11:57

If the site wind susceptibility needs to be measured, they can correlate it with a reference site (weather station) on the day/time to get a good evaluation irrespective of how strong/mild the wind is at time of measure. I do not know if they do this, but that would make sense.

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#740840 7-Jan-2013 09:04

If it was me I would have erected the shed without telling the council.

Jeeves

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#740886 7-Jan-2013 10:13

BTR: If it was me I would have erected the shed without telling the council.

I would hate to see your face when your insurance company doesn't pay out on your house that burnt down due to un-consented works :)
Ignoring the council is one thing. Voiding your insurance is another.

(And also the difficulties in trying to sell an un-consented property)

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