House available for sale subject to Title

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kingdragonfly

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#233911 9-May-2018 09:46

I saw these clauses as two adjoining houses for sale.

"Available for sale subject to Title - this could take 6 - 12 months but possible access prior

This home is part of a proposed subdivision off a huge farm so land area is negotiable"

"once your finances etc have been approved you can move in and wait for your rural property's new title."

Someone would have to be crazy to buy, correct?

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#2010501 9-May-2018 09:54

Also prices are high for the area

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/place/946+Orakau+Rd,+Punakitere+Valley+0474

Trademe house 1

https://www.trademe.co.nz/property/residential-property-for-sale/auction-1620793946.htm

Trademe house 2

https://www.trademe.co.nz/property/residential-property-for-sale/auction-1620010065.htm

Coil

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#2010502 9-May-2018 09:58

Want me to query my father who is a top real estate agent in the area? Sounds fishy, Of all the developments he has done and property he has sold I have never heard of something that they will sell you on a whim. I bet the covenants will be ruthless for them to subdivide that...

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tdgeek

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#2010507 9-May-2018 10:01

Seems great. 379k for a 3BR house, and on 1.6 hectares, that's huge, almost 4 acres

kingdragonfly

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#2010517 9-May-2018 10:06

Coil:
Want me to query my father who is a top real estate agent in the area? Sounds fishy, Of all the developments he has done and property he has sold I have never heard of something that they will sell you on a whim. I bet the covenants will be ruthless for them to subdivide that...

Cheers

Don't worry. I'd feel uncomfortable handing over money for something that has an undefined title, and is available at some undefined date.

tdgeek

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#2010523 9-May-2018 10:13

kingdragonfly:
Coil:

Want me to query my father who is a top real estate agent in the area? Sounds fishy, Of all the developments he has done and property he has sold I have never heard of something that they will sell you on a whim. I bet the covenants will be ruthless for them to subdivide that...

Cheers

Don't worry. I'd feel uncomfortable handing over money for something that has an undefined title, and is available at some undefined date.

It seems above board, subdividing a farm onto two plots isn't easy. But if it gets problematic over any number of rules, that spells potential can of worms. If you could sign a S+P agreement subject to title but move in now, pay agreed rent, pay no money, until the title is signed off that sounds fair. Both are locked in, and if the title is an issue, there is the out. Subject to Title of x amount of hectares, plus agreed buildings

Coil

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#2010526 9-May-2018 10:19

tdgeek:

kingdragonfly:
Coil:

Want me to query my father who is a top real estate agent in the area? Sounds fishy, Of all the developments he has done and property he has sold I have never heard of something that they will sell you on a whim. I bet the covenants will be ruthless for them to subdivide that...

Cheers

Don't worry. I'd feel uncomfortable handing over money for something that has an undefined title, and is available at some undefined date.

It seems above board, subdividing a farm onto two plots isn't easy. But if it gets problematic over any number of rules, that spells potential can of worms. If you could sign a S+P agreement subject to title but move in now, pay agreed rent, pay no money, until the title is signed off that sounds fair. Both are locked in, and if the title is an issue, there is the out. Subject to Title of x amount of hectares, plus agreed buildings

Leaving yourself and the seller open to many different outcomes, The council could decline it based on the existing dwellings not meeting code or any other little tiny detail like right of way. Especially with the WDC you do not trust anything until you got signatures on paper.

The possibilities are endless and it is stepping into the unknown.
Looks good and seems to be good value but I'd say there are some facts that have not been stated about the sellers current position forcing their hand into this.

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Sidestep

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#2010531 9-May-2018 10:24

tdgeek:

It seems above board, subdividing a farm onto two plots isn't easy. But if it gets problematic over any number of rules, that spells potential can of worms. If you could sign a S+P agreement subject to title but move in now, pay agreed rent, pay no money, until the title is signed off that sounds fair. Both are locked in, and if the title is an issue, there is the out. Subject to Title of x amount of hectares, plus agreed buildings

Depends on the situation.
Friends just purchased part of a farm 'subject to title' and have already begun site prep, shelterbelt planting & fencing.

As far as I know they've made a time sensitive and - on issue of clear title - non-refundable deposit to a lawyer in trust and agreed to unconditionally purchase the land for a set price .
They've had legal advice and decided they're willing risk the opportunity cost, loss of their time and effort etc. in the unlikely event title isn't issued.

Unsure if they have any other compensation agreement with the seller.

Sidestep

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#2010535 9-May-2018 10:34

tdgeek:

Seems great. 379k for a 3BR house, and on 1.6 hectares, that's huge, almost 4 acres

It's Kaikohe tho..

MikeAqua

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#2010538 9-May-2018 10:35

In wouldn't be giving the vendors a single dollar until the title has been issued and is satisfactory to you (covenants easements etc).

When I was first looking for a house I found what I thought was a great rural section. Until I realised the title included an easement for the vendors to access their forestry block via the section, without an obligation to re-instate. No thanks. Walked away.

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neb

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#2011622 9-May-2018 12:27

kingdragonfly: Don't worry. I'd feel uncomfortable handing over money for something that has an undefined title, and is available at some undefined date.

You could offer to swap it for your ICO, they sound like they're made for each other.

neb

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#2011626 9-May-2018 12:30

Sidestep:
It's Kaikohe tho..

Had a friend who bought some land up that way, he was an immigrant and was delighted to have the chance to own his own bit of countryside. At the time it wasn't hard to find someone willing to sell off a corner of some farm in order to ease cashflow problems, and the terms were vague at best, usually "how much are you willing to pay, and what do you want?". Downside is you end up with a personal plot in the middle of nowhere with, at best, power access, and the potential for an iwi claim at some point in the future.

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tdgeek

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#2011628 9-May-2018 12:31

Coil:

Leaving yourself and the seller open to many different outcomes, The council could decline it based on the existing dwellings not meeting code or any other little tiny detail like right of way. Especially with the WDC you do not trust anything until you got signatures on paper.

The possibilities are endless and it is stepping into the unknown.
Looks good and seems to be good value but I'd say there are some facts that have not been stated about the sellers current position forcing their hand into this.

That was my point, only one outcome works, hence a signed S+A with conditions to achieve the one outcome. Anything else fails the conditions, no sale.

Coil

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#2011629 9-May-2018 12:32

neb:
kingdragonfly: Don't worry. I'd feel uncomfortable handing over money for something that has an undefined title, and is available at some undefined date.
You could offer to swap it for your ICO, they sound like they're made for each other.

The TV show I watch called Silicon valley has just done that and it was a laugh! Give it a watch :)

kingdragonfly

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#2012668 9-May-2018 13:18

neb: "You could offer to swap it for your ICO, they sound like they're made for each other. "

Are you talking about bitcoins / block chains? No thanks.

https://www.coindesk.com/real-estate-icos-moving-investors-arent-floored/

Real Estate ICOs Are Moving In, But Investors Aren't Floored

"A house on a blockchain?

That's the future a number of initial coin offering (ICO) issuers envision, one in which tokenized pieces of the property could be tracked and traded via a shared database. In this way, the tokens would allow for what entrepreneurs are calling "fractional ownership," or the ability for a real estate owner to split up their home and sell off equity stakes.

Not only would this allow a homeowner to sell some of the home's equity should they need extra money, but it would also allow the equity to be freely traded until, one day, the home was sold, at which point the homeowner and equity owner could both enjoy any gain in the home's value.

It's notable a trend given the excitement the concept saw among earlier blockchain startups that were building businesses around private or permissioned blockchains. But this new round of hype comes from token sellers who believe the crypto token model, in which a digital asset is sold and traded, could bring benefits to perhaps the most fixed of the fixed assets markets."

The article talks a lot about legal hurdles

"Widespread adoption as a financing vehicle is further off, partly because [crypto tokens] are untested in court and partly because it takes time to shift cultural norms."

mdf

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#2012689 9-May-2018 13:51

It's not common, but I can see a few ways of structuring the deal that would likely keep everyone happy and interests protected. Good legal advice on the sale and purchase agreement would be a must, both to protect your interests and to keep your bank happy about what exactly they are lending money (unless you don't need a mortgage).

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