New house build - advice sought

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blackjack17

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#237900 22-Jun-2018 22:04

My wife and I have been talking about building a house in front of our current one. The site is a flat section at the top of a hill. It would have potentially 360 degree views from the Manakau Harbour to Sky Tower. This is what we are thinking.

These are the very rough outside images

And the floor levels:

Ground floor

1st floor

2nd floor

Before we go to an architect we kind of want a plan.

Can you see some obvious improvements/issues with the design?

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Goosey

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#2042693 22-Jun-2018 22:26

Rain (the sideways kind) and Sun and Wind protection?

Aredwood

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#2042701 22-Jun-2018 23:03

Turn that top floor secondary lounge area into another 2 bedrooms. They can still be used as an office / TV room instead of bedrooms if needed.

Make the under house carport into a larger garage. Move the middle floor deck so it is above the garage door. So it can double as a carport / shelter above the front door.

Delete the bedroom, bathroom, and wardrobes / cupboards from middle floor. Much larger open plan lounge / kitchen / dining. Especially since you say that the site has 360deg views.

Delete top floor deck completely, Or at least shrink it to a much smaller deck that only connects to the master bedroom. Extend top floor to occupy space that used to be used by the top floor deck. Use extra floor space on top floor to make bedrooms larger and / or another bedroom, and / or another bathroom due to no longer being a bathroom on the middle floor. This also means that you can have a main bathroom. And a en suite bathroom off the master bedroom. Re jig layout so that the bathrooms, walk in wardrobe etc are in the middle of the house. So the bedrooms can have better views.

Consider swapping the middle and top floors. Better views from the kitchen / lounge etc. And would probably save on construction costs as well.

Sure, The house would then be a simple rectangle type design. But complex exterior shapes / design always cost more to build. And I can't see the point in spending heaps more on construction costs, when you won't gain any extra floor area for doing so.

mattwnz

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#2042702 22-Jun-2018 23:03

As someone who ahs designed a number of homes, I would start off with working out where north is and the sun path. Also what is your budget, as going 3 level is not likely to be cheap? Also what cladding are you using, and how many squares it is?

Is there any garden, as many people like a good connection with the living area to the garden, for indoor outdoor flow, and outdoor living? A deck isn't really the same thing I don't think, unless it is surrounded by bush and also looks out over a view.

mattwnz

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#2042705 22-Jun-2018 23:06

Aredwood:

Sure, The house would then be a simple rectangle type design. But complex exterior shapes / design always cost more to build. And I can't see the point in spending heaps more on construction costs, when you won't gain any extra floor area for doing so.

Except that a bland box may not be very aesthetically pleasing, and can affect it's desirability and value. I remember one of these home building programs , must be about 15 years ago, where they built a home in NZ for 100k. They built it as simple as possible to save money. but the problem was that it was so bland and boring, that they had to spend a lot of money making it more visually interesting. Would be pretty hard to build a home for even triple that these days.

Aredwood

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#2042709 22-Jun-2018 23:11

And depending on size of site and planning rules. Are you even allowed to build 3 levels without a resource consent? And then there are height to boundary, front yard setback. Stupid rules requiring landscaped front yards that you have to maintain, can't use for parking, can't fence properly so no use for small kids etc.

If the section is smallish, designing the house will simply be more working around stupid council rules. And neighbours who don't want any development next door to them.

Edit to add.

Agree that it shouldn't be completely bland. But also consider that for certain cultures who tend to have multiple generations of family living in the same home. Having say 6 or 7 bedrooms in a major selling point.

Have also seen plenty of houses where it looked like the designer had pushed things a bit too far. Lots of irregular shaped rooms, all with lots of small hallways connecting them together, with a complex exterior design of course. House would have cost heaps to build, but doesn't have much usable space. And would be expensive to maintain or renovate.

Complex exterior designs can also cause waterproofing issues. Or at least require far more attention to detail to make them leak proof.

jonathan18

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#2042726 23-Jun-2018 06:54

I wonder if there’s a risk working on too much of the specific design vs what you want to achieve from the house?

We looked at building a few years back (still keen but we decided to at least hold off until it was financially a more rational decision!), and started with mocking up plans. We then realized that’s what we’re paying the architect for - that person”s the expert in that - and we risked missing out on Some of the skill and flare that an architect can and should provide.

It’s their job to translate the home builder’s dreams, needs, aesthetics etc into something workable and delightful. On that basis, we wrote up a document based on that; yes with some design concept descriptions included (not graphics), but most of it based around the use and feel than the layout.

Just my 2cs!

Edit, I know this could be seen as risking the very things the post directly above highlights, and that’s true - but that can be mitigated by a clear direction re budget, complexity, basic form etc. I so think the end result is far more likely to be a boring box if the owner has too much input into the design concepts.

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blackjack17

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#2042755 23-Jun-2018 10:21

Aredwood:

Turn that top floor secondary lounge area into another 2 bedrooms. They can still be used as an office / TV room instead of bedrooms if needed.

Make the under house carport into a larger garage. Move the middle floor deck so it is above the garage door. So it can double as a carport / shelter above the front door.

Delete the bedroom, bathroom, and wardrobes / cupboards from middle floor. Much larger open plan lounge / kitchen / dining. Especially since you say that the site has 360deg views.

Delete top floor deck completely, Or at least shrink it to a much smaller deck that only connects to the master bedroom. Extend top floor to occupy space that used to be used by the top floor deck. Use extra floor space on top floor to make bedrooms larger and / or another bedroom, and / or another bathroom due to no longer being a bathroom on the middle floor. This also means that you can have a main bathroom. And a en suite bathroom off the master bedroom. Re jig layout so that the bathrooms, walk in wardrobe etc are in the middle of the house. So the bedrooms can have better views.

Consider swapping the middle and top floors. Better views from the kitchen / lounge etc. And would probably save on construction costs as well.

Sure, The house would then be a simple rectangle type design. But complex exterior shapes / design always cost more to build. And I can't see the point in spending heaps more on construction costs, when you won't gain any extra floor area for doing so.

Bit more context.

It is an 800sqm section and we own the three bedroom house at the end of the section. We are looking at retaining ownership and renting it out and potential keeping it for parents when they get a bit on.

Top of the page is east with the best views south. Deck is west to capture afternoon sun.

The cut out on the top floor along the northern side is to stay within height to boundary limits. Three floors aren't allowed as of right but there are examples around us that are 3 stories. The carport on the bottom is for visitor parking.

Don't like the idea of living space at top as while views would be great anyone visiting would have to walk up two flights of steps.

The top "deck" is a pergola to shelter lower deck.

The 360 views are mainly from the 3rd storey, while the 2nd storey has views east, south and west.

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mattwnz

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#2042945 23-Jun-2018 19:11

You may want to consider a lift if for older parents in the future.

Aredwood

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#2042951 23-Jun-2018 19:30

Since the northern deck is only due to height to boundary rules. Instead extend the house with a 45deg sloping roof over that area. And put dormer windows for each bedroom along that side instead. As there is an exemption to the height to boundary rules for dormer windows.

Consider summer and winter sun angles as well. You might still want a deck on the top floor northern side. But one that overhangs the ground on the northern side instead. As a means of blocking some of the summer sun. And that middle floor definitely needs redesigning. As currently the stairs, bathroom, cupboard, wardrobe, bedroom will get the best sun.While the kitchen will get almost no sun in winter.

blackjack17

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#2042966 23-Jun-2018 21:17

mattwnz:

As someone who ahs designed a number of homes, I would start off with working out where north is and the sun path. Also what is your budget, as going 3 level is not likely to be cheap? Also what cladding are you using, and how many squares it is?

Is there any garden, as many people like a good connection with the living area to the garden, for indoor outdoor flow, and outdoor living? A deck isn't really the same thing I don't think, unless it is surrounded by bush and also looks out over a view.

I completely get what you are saying, however the views are south. And we would not get any views to the north till the 3rd floor. 2nd floor gets light but views of the neighbors roof.

3 stories won't be cheap but neither would buying a house in our location with the space that we want of the quality we want. We could stay 2 stories but then no backyard. By going up allows us to have a back yard (nearly 200sqm)

Cladding, I was thinking http://www.nuwall.co.nz/profiles/vertical-profiles/e-series/ and vertical cedar.

Budget wouldn't want to go over $700,000 (I have connections in the building industry to help reduce the cost)

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blackjack17

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#2042968 23-Jun-2018 21:28

Aredwood: Since the northern deck is only due to height to boundary rules. Instead extend the house with a 45deg sloping roof over that area. And put dormer windows for each bedroom along that side instead. As there is an exemption to the height to boundary rules for dormer windows.

Consider summer and winter sun angles as well. You might still want a deck on the top floor northern side. But one that overhangs the ground on the northern side instead. As a means of blocking some of the summer sun. And that middle floor definitely needs redesigning. As currently the stairs, bathroom, cupboard, wardrobe, bedroom will get the best sun.While the kitchen will get almost no sun in winter.

The northern deck isn't a deck, it's a roof.

Looked at putting a deck in but the cost would be massive and it would be looking at the neighbors roof.

Bathroom, bedroom and wardrobe does get the best sun but views of neighbors roof.

These are the views we are trying to capture (at ground level) and from existing house

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blackjack17

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#2042970 23-Jun-2018 21:31

mattwnz:

You may want to consider a lift if for older parents in the future.

That is one of the reasons we are keeping the back house.

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Scott3

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#2043028 24-Jun-2018 00:47

Add storage, lots of storage. Everything from suitcases, to linen, to boardgames, to toolboxes is best kept out of site, somewhere where it won't get to dusty. Can never have enough storage cupboards.
3x bedrooms on the top floor, and only one bathroom... I think the days of sharing with that kind of ratio are long gone, at least put in a dedicated on-suite for master bedroom. (If you don't want to do that, at least put the toilet in a dedicated room).
Try make your master bedroom bigger at the expense of other bedrooms.
Avoid bathroom access via walk in wardrobe, to minimize steam in your storage area
If you add a bathroom as above, consider ditching the toilet from the laundry (or perhaps ditch it anyway, unless you have a specific use for it. (say if you are an avid gardner, and want a toilet to use with dirty clothes, without trapping up the stairs.
Change the carport to a third garage. Probably cheaper than having that whole corner of the house hanging anyway. 3 car garaging definitely is not out of place in a high end four (double) bedroom house. Try provision one visitor car-park unsheltered that doesn't block your turning area.
Try and make the big enough to use with ease (length to walk around large car with door closed, width so you can open doors, and height to take a minivan). Current house has a very small double garage, and it is a pain to use.
Storage space for "garage" stuff - lawnmower, push bikes, kayaks, paddle boards etc.
Enough turning space so even a large car can get out of the garage in a single stab.

pctek

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#2043118 24-Jun-2018 12:17

Bathroom off a lounge?

me, if I had a choice:

Laundry, bathroom, toilet (Separate) all in one area.

Lounge, dining kitchen in another.

North facing for lounge and at least 2 bedrooms.

Not kitchen.

Toilets in bathrooms are so yuk....I get it if they are both small and you need to increase room on existing.

3 car garage? Bit overkill. 2 is fine.

Building these days, seen so many bad stories, and they use such rubbish materials now, cut corners and have no underfloor.

Husband as an ex-plumber could tell you. Getting builders in, jackhammering through the concrete floor to get at the buried pipes, shudder.....

Buster

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#2043142 24-Jun-2018 15:04

I've no particular design suggestions but do consider sound transfer within the house.

When and where does anyone make noise (kitchen, laundry, lounge) and are there areas in the house you want to be free of noise?

Sounds from above or below?