Goldair wall heater

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LisaM77

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#248574 1-Apr-2019 10:29

I'm looking at heating options for 2 large bedrooms. I looked in to heat pumps (to the extent they were about to be installed when a problem came up with the installer, long story) but have decided no for now. I have 2 heat pumps about to go in to 2 other rooms, and a big piece of work coming up on the deck. One of the rooms has a panel heater (DeLonghi) that works very well. It has a fan option but I never use it. The only problem is it is not wifi enabled and has to be turned on at the wall then the unit, so a smart plug won't help. I am looking at some options and interested in thoughts, particularly from experience:

High price point - LHZ radiator. Has wifi. It looks like their vertical options don't have wifi so I'd have to find nearly a metre of wall space and half the wall space is floor length windows. $1800. Similar price for vertical (I've sent a message asking about wifi).

Moderate price point - Goldair Glass Panel. This seems similar to what I have so I'm comfortable with it in principle. It has wifi built in although I gather the app is pretty basic but good enough to turn on when heading home, or off if left on. Remote control is handy enough at the bedside to turn off at night. Also has built in timer for a more hands free experience. If it comes on when switched on at the wall I would look at adding a smart plug and automating through Vera/Netatmo. I also like it comes in black for one of the rooms. This is probably ideal for that room. $300 (2000W).

Lower price point - Goldair Ceramic Wall Heater. I'm intrigued by this. It has a fan setting which could be useful. It would be nice to move air around when it's really hot in summer, and could help with condensation in winter. The bedrooms are in an upstairs/downstairs configuration one above the other so I'm concerned about vibration from the fan from one room to the other. And are they any good for heating? Not wifi enabled so I'd get a smart plug so long as it comes on with the wall switch (not to standby). It's $160 (2000W) and I'll be honest, that worries me. Does the fan run when heating and if so is it as loud as one of the reviews I read? Ie, sounded like an airport - which I guess means it'll be heard downstairs too.

In particular, is the $1800 worth it over the $300, and why?

Thanks.

timmmay

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#2208453 1-Apr-2019 10:44

I use oil heaters with a $10 timers from mitre ten for my heaters, as well as heat pumps with Broadlink units / app to automate them using IR. A small amount of planning can negate the need for WiFi. Keeping heating on a bit lower than your usual temp during the day can make the house feel a lot warmer, and the incremental cost isn't all that much in a well insulated house.

Not sure what an LHZ radiator is. Is it electric, or central heated water like the UK? $1800 seems a lot given I can buy an oil heater for $50 - $150 and a timer for $10.

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LisaM77

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#2208516 1-Apr-2019 11:02

Thanks Timmmay, it's a large house and quite complicated to heat due to large amounts of glazing (not double) a large living area that opens to downstairs, and large bedrooms/2nd living. We've been here just over 4 years and have been frustrated with the severely under powered heat pumps that were put in when built 14 years ago. The cavities are not big enough for ducted heating, which is what I would get in an ideal world. We got a quote for central heating (UK style) but at ~$35K we would never see any real ROI, plus the hassle of boiler, running pipes externally, etc.

One of the new heat pumps is replacing the one in the open living area and given it is rated nearly double for heating I think we'll feel quite a difference. The one downstairs doesn't do too bad, and heats a couple of the bedrooms. The 2nd living area is getting the 2nd new heat pump - I use it as an office. It's more than 50% glazing so freezes in winter and is a sauna in summer so I've worked elsewhere when it's too bad, and used a fan heater which I don't like doing.

The bedrooms in question don't get much heat (if any) from the heat pumps, hence the need for something in them.

This is the LHZ https://www.bbqsdirect.co.nz/436-lhz-electric-radiators. I'll be honest, I like the look of it, and the continued heating once the thermostat turns off makes sense in terms of lower cost.

Timers are a last resort for me because we don't have much of a routine. I work from home but only most of the time, my partner works different hours every day, my Dad is with us sometimes but not all. Something I can control from anywhere or change settings without having to go to each room as needs change is highly desirable. If I can get it all to work with my Vera unit that would be even better, but less of a priority for now (the main heat pumps will).

We have solar so do run the heating during the day so it's at temperature when it gets cold at night. 99% of the time there is at least one person at home so it's pretty much always needed anyway. But it would be nice to set it to come on on the way home if there wasn't anyone home, and not leave it running but still come home to a warm house. It's a beautiful house and we love it, but it has some challenges!

timmmay

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#2208523 1-Apr-2019 11:07

If you leave the heating on, with decent sized heat pumps, even with corners it should at least do something for a lot of the house. Our heat pump warms our master bedroom, it has to go around two corners to get there. It takes some time, but with the heat pumps on 18 hours a day that's fine.

We tend to do 21 / 22 degrees during the day, 18 at night, or off on milder nights, with oil heaters in bedrooms. Leave them on and you don't need timers, and after the first few hours they don't run all that much.

The radiator is really just heating bricks or similar then letting them cool, there's nothing special about it. Seems expensive for what it is. If you're spending that kind of money, get a heat pump. You can run heat pump pipes a fair distance and have them still work well.

LisaM77

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#2208527 1-Apr-2019 11:23

Thanks again. I like the look of the radiator, but do find it hard to justify that cost. They're designed as part of a modular system that's centrally controlled. If I'd come across them sooner they might have been the solution I was looking for, without the massive upfront cost, adding more over time.

On heating the far rooms, they're on the cold corner of the house and whatever heat gets there is quickly lost from the windows. One of them has a thermal film we had put on a couple of years ago and it has made a difference, but not enough. I still need to create heat within the room. It's helped a lot with condensation though.

I'll see if there are any other thoughts, otherwise I'm tending towards the panels. Thanks for your advice.

jonathan18

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#2208548 1-Apr-2019 11:57

LisaM77:

High price point - LHZ radiator. Has wifi. It looks like their vertical options don't have wifi so I'd have to find nearly a metre of wall space and half the wall space is floor length windows. $1800. Similar price for vertical (I've sent a message asking about wifi).

...

In particular, is the $1800 worth it over the $300, and why?

That is a shocking amount of money for a heater that is, in reality, going to cost a similar amount to run as the cheaper options you're looking at!

At least with a heat pump, that high up-front cost can be defended with the substantial savings with running costs.

Also, the lack of a fan can mean it takes a while to heat a large space (or to do so evenly) - at least with a fan one has the choice to use it or not (eg, initially, to warm the whole space more quickly).

If there are any aspects of the cheaper options you don't like, are there any other wifi-enabled heaters at that cheaper-moderate end of the market?

Aredwood

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#2208562 1-Apr-2019 12:09

What was the reason for not getting heatpumps in those bedrooms? Especially as they are on the cold side of your house. And the 2.5KW class heatpumps also have better energy efficiency compared to the larger models. So even more benefit for getting heatpumps in those bedrooms compared to electric heaters.

And of course, heatpumps work for cooling as well. Which in the humidity of the previous summer, made it far easier to get to sleep.

If you must get electric heaters. Get some dumb oil column or convection heaters for cheaper. And instead spend some money on upgrading your home automation system, to get smart control of those heaters.

timmmay

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#2208568 1-Apr-2019 12:20

Aredwood: And the 2.5KW class heatpumps also have better energy efficiency compared to the larger models.

My understanding is that this is accurate, so long as they're not undersized. A small heat pump running at 100% all the time is less efficient than a larger unit running at 50%.

A quick look suggests upgrading from 2.5kw to higher power 4kw or a bit more isn't that expensive. The install cost is likely the same for both.

LisaM77

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#2208575 1-Apr-2019 12:32

Thanks Aredwood

The main reason for not putting heat pumps in now is because I'm coming up to pay out about $40K on the other heat pumps that are going in and the work being done on the deck (plus a bunch of other non-house spending). A couple of $300 heaters that will do the job suits quite well. Another reason is the external units. They'd both be on the back of the house and would have to be piped over to the part the bedrooms aren't on. There are already 2 external units out there, and one is about to be replaced with a much larger one (about twice the size).

When I was about to have heat pumps installed in the bedroom last year I believed I had been quoted on a very clear requirement for the external units to be piped away from the bedrooms. On the day it turned out I had not, and they didn't have the equipment to be able to do it. They also wouldn't install the 3rd that was meant to go in, at the other end of the house, without doing the other 2 (and it would be the end of winter before they would come back).

On reflection, I'm not sure more external units could or should be put out the back. I won't have them directly back to back because of the noise (I can hear the others on the other side, albeit faintly) and they'd have to go very high up on the other side. The brackets would mean penetrating the exterior of the house. It is an EFIS-type cladding with a textured exterior. The guy putting in the ones coming soon recommended against elevating the one at the front of the house for this reason, and is using existing brackets out back. I'm sure the guys who came and went would have done a poor job on this and I'm sure I dodged a bullet that day!

I'll review again in time, but at the moment I'm not putting heat pumps in those rooms despite the many benefits.

I also asked about multisplit last year but got a similar quote as radiator central (~$35K) for less than the whole house and was left less than convinced that it was a good idea with long runs, something about only being able to control all at once, etc, etc. It didn't sound right but the price is too high anyway.

Do you recommend any tablet/convection heaters that come on when switched on at the wall? If so I can just get smart plugs for them and don't need to upgrade my home automation, just add them. That's what I'd do if the existing heater didn't need to be switched on at the unit. Netatmo can feed the temperature to Vera. Failing that, the wifi heaters are relatively cheap and can be controlled remotely.

LisaM77

51 posts

Master Geek

#2208583 1-Apr-2019 12:37

timmmay:

Aredwood: And the 2.5KW class heatpumps also have better energy efficiency compared to the larger models.

My understanding is that this is accurate, so long as they're not undersized. A small heat pump running at 100% all the time is less efficient than a larger unit running at 50%.

A quick look suggests upgrading from 2.5kw to higher power 4kw or a bit more isn't that expensive. The install cost is likely the same for both.

These rooms would take at least 4.5kw for heating (25 & 30m2). The one going in to the 24m2 room (with a bit more glazing) is 5.4kw heating. But not an option at the moment (see above).

timmmay

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#2208591 1-Apr-2019 12:43

External units attached to a house can make the whole house vibrate. I was in visitor to a house that had that once, it was annoying.

Put in some $100 - $200 oil column heaters and be done with it. Mine cost about $30 from The Warehouse years ago and are still going strong, though they're a bit ugly. If you can get units with a fan built in they'll heat the room a bit faster.

You could consider the type of heat pump that uses a single very large outdoor unit for multiple indoor units. They tend to cost more more per unit, probably due to low sales volumes and install complexity.

LisaM77

51 posts

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#2208624 1-Apr-2019 13:52

jonathan18:That is a shocking amount of money for a heater that is, in reality, going to cost a similar amount to run as the cheaper options you're looking at!

At least with a heat pump, that high up-front cost can be defended with the substantial savings with running costs.

Also, the lack of a fan can mean it takes a while to heat a large space (or to do so evenly) - at least with a fan one has the choice to use it or not (eg, initially, to warm the whole space more quickly).

If there are any aspects of the cheaper options you don't like, are there any other wifi-enabled heaters at that cheaper-moderate end of the market?

I think so too, but it makes me wonder what's so great about them. They do come with a 12 year warranty, and as I said in another post, I think it must be because you can essentially set up a central heating system (I saw a manual with diagrams including something that looked like a switchboard) and do it in a modular fashion. Still, I don't know about heating a house like this with just those. I guess you're not buying something like that with any thought of changing it out in less than 10, probably more like 20.

Aredwood

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#2208850 1-Apr-2019 17:12

LisaM77:
timmmay:

Aredwood: And the 2.5KW class heatpumps also have better energy efficiency compared to the larger models.

My understanding is that this is accurate, so long as they're not undersized. A small heat pump running at 100% all the time is less efficient than a larger unit running at 50%.

A quick look suggests upgrading from 2.5kw to higher power 4kw or a bit more isn't that expensive. The install cost is likely the same for both.

These rooms would take at least 4.5kw for heating (25 & 30m2). The one going in to the 24m2 room (with a bit more glazing) is 5.4kw heating. But not an option at the moment (see above).

The badge capacity of a heatpump is normally the cooling capacity. So the 2.5KW class units typically have a heating capacity of 3 -4 KW. If you actually do need that much heat in a bedroom, then a plug in electric heater will be way undersized. If a 2KW plug in heater can keep those rooms warm, then a 2.5KW heatpump definitely can.

Smaller heatpumps are actually more efficient than larger heatpumps. The Mitsubishi GE25 has a COP of 4.6, The GE35 - COP of 4.08, GE42 - COP of 3.86, GE48 - COP of 3.61. Other brands and model ranges all follow a similar pattern.

The installers often quote for heatpumps that are way oversized for heating. As they want to make sure that the unit will be able to cope with cooling, even during full strength summer sun. Since you said that those bedrooms are on the coldest side of the house, I'm guessing that they dont get much sun, and that you wont need to go to sleep during the day during summer, use those rooms as an office etc. (since you said that you have a different room as an office).

Smaller heatpumps also mean less annoyance from them cycling on and off all the time. And lower max power draw means that they can often be connected to an existing power point circuit, instead of needing a dedicated cable to the switchboard.

As for your install problems. Sounds like you just need better installers. There are lots of installers who have only done a short course on how to install heatpumps. Ask a refrigeration technician instead. On longer pipe runs, you need to calculate then measure and add some extra refrigerant gas to the heatpump. I wouldn't be surprised if your original installers didn't know how to do that. If they can only do back to back installs.

LisaM77

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#2211443 5-Apr-2019 17:55

I ended up going with an entirely different solution. I was in Harvey Norman earlier today and they were just putting out their new stocks of heaters. There were these little 2kw DeLonghi convection heaters with 2 heat settings and a thermostat. Nothing else. And if you leave the heat setting on it starts up when switched on at the wall. About half the size of every other 2kw heater. $69. So I've ordered a couple of Aeotec smart plugs to pair with the Vera. Just over half the cost of what I was leaning towards, but better set up overall. Yay!

phrozenpenguin

833 posts

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#2227655 29-Apr-2019 22:15

LisaM77:

I ended up going with an entirely different solution. I was in Harvey Norman earlier today and they were just putting out their new stocks of heaters. There were these little 2kw DeLonghi convection heaters with 2 heat settings and a thermostat. Nothing else. And if you leave the heat setting on it starts up when switched on at the wall. About half the size of every other 2kw heater. $69. So I've ordered a couple of Aeotec smart plugs to pair with the Vera. Just over half the cost of what I was leaning towards, but better set up overall. Yay!

Now you have had them a bit how are you finding them? Were they these heaters? https://www.harveynorman.co.nz/home-appliances/heating-and-cooling/heaters/delonghi-2000w-convection-heater.html

LisaM77

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#2227707 30-Apr-2019 07:47

phrozenpenguin:

Now you have had them a bit how are you finding them? Were they these heaters? https://www.harveynorman.co.nz/home-appliances/heating-and-cooling/heaters/delonghi-2000w-convection-heater.html

Yes, that's them. They do the job no problem at all. The only downside is a ticking with expanding and contracting when it comes on and goes off. It doesn't last long. It throws out a lot of heat quickly and has never needed to stay on for long.