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xpd



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# 248645 3-Apr-2019 20:40
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We have a MultiSan unit for out downstairs toilet due to it being below the plumbing. It stopped working a few weeks back, but found the motor was jammed, so manage to free that up and all seemed well.... then one day the motor kicked into life, and there was a flash of light and a loud "pop" sound from the circuit board with the faint hint of electrical burning.

 

So since then Ive taken the board off, given it a clean with contact cleaner, checked everything over and theres not anything obvious to my eyes  thats leaking etc.  The only thing that does look out of sorts, is the bulb which looks burnt - yet still works.

 

A friend took a look in the weekend, and he said it looks like something is arcing, but without any burn marks..... 

 

Any ideas ? 

 

Images of the board :

 

http://s44.photobucket.com/user/xpdnz/library/Board

 

 





XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

 

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  # 2210368 3-Apr-2019 21:07
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I can't seem to view the pictures at a decent size so it's hard to see what might have arced

 

Does the motor still run?

 

Is there a fuse anywhere?





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  # 2210375 3-Apr-2019 21:18
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Technofreak:

 

I can't seem to view the pictures at a decent size so it's hard to see what might have arced

 

Does the motor still run?

 

Is there a fuse anywhere?

 

 

 

 

try in this view https://s44.photobucket.com/user/xpdnz/slideshow/Board?sort=3





 
 
 
 


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  # 2210386 3-Apr-2019 21:28
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@l43a2

 

Thank you, that helped immensely.

 

I don't see anything on the board that is obviously causing your problem.

 

Could the arcing have come from elsewhere? For example, when the motor jammed could the wiring have got hot and the insulation have melted on some of the wiring and subsequently that wire has come in contact with metal frame work that is earthed?

 

If there's arcing there's usually burn marks.





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  # 2210508 4-Apr-2019 07:48
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The motor does continue to run, it does its job. It just seems to be as it kicks in is when the issue occurs.  No fuse attached anywhere I could see.

 

http://www.wallacepumps.co.nz/pdf/1%20Multisan.pdf

 

Its not exactly that unit as ours is older but same sort of layout etc.





XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

 

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  # 2210524 4-Apr-2019 08:30
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I am not an electrician, so take me with a grain of salt... I agree with everything Technofreak says. But add...

 

When a motor turns on there's a large inrush current. Presumably that is stressing something. Maybe the capacitor on the board? Maybe the capacitor has failed?

 

Can you run the system with the cover off and cause the motor to start? Obviously make sure noone touches the exposed board when you do this. Hopefully you should be able to narrow down the source of the noise and the light.

 

But if I had arcing from a mains-powered system, I would turn the thing off and call an electrician. There's a definite fire risk.

 

 


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  # 2210537 4-Apr-2019 08:51
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The cover is off, has been since the motor was jammed. :)  All caps appear fine, which I wouldnt expect to see after the nice flash and pop. :)

 

Ive got a video of it on the wifes phone, will throw it up here once she sends to me. 

 

Its been left off at the wall since starting this. Thankfully we have a second toilet :D

 

 





XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

 

Server : i3-3240 @ 3.40GHz  16GB RAM  Win 10 Pro    Workstation : i5-3570K @ 3.40GHz  16GB RAM  RX580 4GB Win 10 Pro    Console : Xbox One

 

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  # 2217057 14-Apr-2019 19:15
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Set up the GoPro near the pump tonight.

 

https://youtu.be/E9bXLs9j1A4

 

Interesting its from the back of the unit, and not the circuit board as I first thought.

 

Theres a large cylinder there that does have a ground wire (think) connected to it, so maybe so sort of capacitor ? It goes bang the first time, but if I dont turn off at the wall and then run the pump again it behaves.

 

SWMBO did mention tonight that she did spray some Exit mould around the toilet area around the time it stopped working..... wonder if she got that cylinder with it........

 

 





XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

 

Server : i3-3240 @ 3.40GHz  16GB RAM  Win 10 Pro    Workstation : i5-3570K @ 3.40GHz  16GB RAM  RX580 4GB Win 10 Pro    Console : Xbox One

 

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  # 2217059 14-Apr-2019 19:30
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Yep there is normally quite a beefy capacitor on those sorts of motors. That arc looks as though the capacitor is charging and suddenly discharging with a bang.





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  # 2217062 14-Apr-2019 19:34
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Can you get a photo of the component where the arcing is coming from?

It does seem like it could be a capacitor, but a photo would sure help to make sure where the arcing is coming from.

Even better can you mount the Go Pro behind the unit to video the area that's sparking?




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  # 2217063 14-Apr-2019 19:43
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Bit of a squeeze but will see what I can do :)

 

 





XPD / Gavin / DemiseNZ

 

Server : i3-3240 @ 3.40GHz  16GB RAM  Win 10 Pro    Workstation : i5-3570K @ 3.40GHz  16GB RAM  RX580 4GB Win 10 Pro    Console : Xbox One

 

https://www.xpd.co.nz - Games, geeks, and more.     Now on BigPipe 100/100 and 2Talk


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  # 2217090 14-Apr-2019 20:44
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to me it looks like it is arcing where the wires enter the motor.

 

Judging by your description of the motor been previously jammed and burning smell I would say that the wiring has overheated (due to been jammed) and the insulation melted, now although the motor still runs there is a flash over occurring as when the motor runs the magnetic field around the wires causes them to move together and short out.

 

 

 

Basically get an electrician in, it may be cheaper just to get a whole new unit fitted rather than getting it fixed, but your electrician will give you a good indication of the likely cost of replacement vs. repair


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