Solar Zero system by Solar City NZ

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webwat

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#277032 22-Sep-2020 19:00

Have been looking at Solar city due to having no up front costs. Apparently they get some subsidy so can charge $85+GST per month for their service over 20 years (extendable to 30) which is effectively a rental of solar panels, 6.4kWh battery/charger/inverter system manufactured by Link Data using Panasonic batteries that runs the fridge etc during a power cut. Battery charger and inverter both handle up to 3kW throughput so you want to turn off any hungry appliances during a power cut. They guarantee the system will continue to produce 80% of original capacity over its life and any replacement parts are their cost. Battery replacement expected after 10 years. Not sure what the $75 "eco bonus" and $45 "grid energy credit" are, but the fees are $200/month before those subsidies. Wouldn't be surprised if the contract gave them an out in case government cancels a subsidy.

The odd thing that has me questioning it is that they are pushing the whole power savings of their favoured power retailer, Ecotricity, on a power price guarantee of 8c/kWh "cost of energy" (plus the various lines charges) and they also buy back at 8c. I would have thought the generation costs would come down over time if generators can build capacity to keep up with demand, especially if large scale solar generation becomes cheaper over time. I understand that generators have sometimes tried to keep prices up but that shouldn't be a problem if I am generating at least some solar output at peak times. Apparently its "feasible" to switch power providers if you don't mind losing the price guarantee, but then you would have to find a retailer with a price for power-to-grid buy back.

Anyone know of a more transparent deal out there? The business case seems to be predicated on inflation pushing up average retail supply rates.

Just found the Panasonic battery is Lithium NCA cells (nickel cobalt aluminium), how safe are they? Are they as safe as LiFePO4 battery cells?

Time to find a new industry!

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#2572341 22-Sep-2020 19:51

I wont go with them for that deal because it is basically them seeing you as the source of the return on their investment. Better to get the gear yourself and have all the returns from it. Seems a very low risk investment and westpac and some other banks have no interest deals on solar and insulation stuff if you have a mortgage with them.

https://www.westpac.co.nz/home-loans/warm-up/

5 years of no interest on the solar gear may certainly change the prospects. Even with the rates being so low at the moment zero is less than almost zero.

Richard rich.ms

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#2572381 22-Sep-2020 20:50

They do also offer a deal where you pay up front for a considerable discount over the 20 year cost, but it is still a lease arrangement, so they will maintain and replace as needed over the 20 years.

ren1316

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#2572388 22-Sep-2020 21:05

@webwat, There are a lot of negative comments with solar zero. I do not know if any of them have any personal experience.

I myself find the deal to be favorable. The saving with the power you paid more than offset the cost of the monthly cost of joining the system. I am paying 8c per unit for power (plus line cost etc bringing the unit price to 14cent). The grid credit $ is what Solar Zero will credit your account if the power provider charge you more than 8c per unit.

With Battery, the charging will be during daylight and off peak for use during peak hours, thus lowering the power bill further.

If you want to know more or have further questions, feel free to PM.

Jon.

webwat

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#2572395 22-Sep-2020 21:25

Sorry didn't realise you guys already replied, did a few edits... Looks like the controller/battery is the Australian Link Data system. Can't find it on the Australian list of safety approved battery systems.

Time to find a new industry!

webwat

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#2572411 22-Sep-2020 21:36

ren1316:

@webwat, There are a lot of negative comments with solar zero. I do not know if any of them have any personal experience.

I myself find the deal to be favorable. The saving with the power you paid more than offset the cost of the monthly cost of joining the system. I am paying 8c per unit for power (plus line cost etc bringing the unit price to 14cent). The grid credit $ is what Solar Zero will credit your account if the power provider charge you more than 8c per unit.

With Battery, the charging will be during daylight and off peak for use during peak hours, thus lowering the power bill further.

If you want to know more or have further questions, feel free to PM.

Jon.

They said they also charge the battery overnight enough to power morning usage until the solar starts generating, so likely to average 50%. It won't discharge below 20% unless there's a power cut.

The grid credit is apparently a fixed monthly credit that brings the monthly fee down to $85, don't know where it comes from. They did mention Transpower is trying to spread power loads without saying anything about the subsidies.

I would like to see an contractual option to buy the system outright if the house is sold or we decide we no longer like paying the rental for whatever reason, have to ask them about that.

Time to find a new industry!

ren1316

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#2572415 22-Sep-2020 21:39

Yes, you can pay off the remaining period at any time.

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webwat

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#2572970 23-Sep-2020 16:31

I'm pretty sure the battery/inverter system is the one made by Link Data in china, although they appear kind of related anyway.

If they don't discount the buyout option when you exit the rental agreement early then I don't think it will fly...

Time to find a new industry!

Quinny

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#2573319 24-Sep-2020 10:40

I rejected this as it can affect the sale price of your home. You have to have a buyer willing to continue the payments or you have to pay it out. Yes instead cost upfront but with the Westpac 10k (zero interest 5 years) and rest at 2.5%) I have not looked back. I did go over the top with 6.6 system, 5k inverter and a Powerwall but 2 months in I am in love. High usage home mostly off grid all the time and obsessed with the tesla app. Quotable NZ are coming out but RV looks like will increase by system value as well. I designed my system around output in 10 years time and went top of the line so yeah was not cheap but I am very happy.

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#2597886 4-Nov-2020 22:02

Quinny:

I rejected this as it can affect the sale price of your home. You have to have a buyer willing to continue the payments or you have to pay it out. Yes instead cost upfront but with the Westpac 10k (zero interest 5 years) and rest at 2.5%) I have not looked back. I did go over the top with 6.6 system, 5k inverter and a Powerwall but 2 months in I am in love. High usage home mostly off grid all the time and obsessed with the tesla app. Quotable NZ are coming out but RV looks like will increase by system value as well. I designed my system around output in 10 years time and went top of the line so yeah was not cheap but I am very happy.

Can you tell me a bit more? Who did you buy from, cost, usage and payback?

Regards

networkn

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#2597958 4-Nov-2020 23:38

@quinny I'd also be keen to hear more detail.

Quinny

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#2598248 5-Nov-2020 12:20

I obtained several quotes and was also very particular in my briefing. I was not after the "cheapest quote" I wanted a system that in 10 years would still work excellently. This means you look at 2 things. Panel "efficiency" ie how good is it. The higher the better. And what is the panel "degradation" which is how much ability does the panel loose each year. I went with the LG Neon 2 (and Tesla Powerwall via Harrisons) as the LG are efficiency 21-22% and for degradation 95% in 10 years and 90% in 25 guaranteed. You need to allow for these numbers or your 6k system today is a 5k or less system in 10 years. Cheap is not equal.

We are a high use pc gamer home using 20-25kw per day (with gas bill on top of this for water and heating). From the day the system went in I have been saving more than the $77 per fortnight the interest-free solar loan from Westpac costs. We are currently in credit for September and October months so savings for me is around $250 a month.

If you just look at numbers then payback on solar is about 5-8 years ie how much do I payback of the purchase cost vs how much do I save each month on the power bill. You can use SolarEdge (This is my public site) to have a look for someone near you with solar in the size you are considering. Most good suppliers will also give you a chart and plans. So yeah solar has a good case, good payback.

Batteries are another discussion. We are out during the day so I wanted the off-grid, battery backup and the use when need it. Batteries are not cheap so the payback is not good. BUT the returns shine in terms of using the solar well (unless you have an excess dump like say hot water, pool or a car you could use). So now the question is are you after return or after "feel good about the environment" or making your home greener and more desirable if you sold it. These mattered to me. I have added this into my equations as the balance did go on the mortgage at 2.5%. All up I spend $17 on the Powerwall and $18 on the solar. I absolutely 3 months later love it and feel was the best decision. I am waiting on the new RV value but based on what others tell me I should have close to the full value added to the house value if sold.

So now back to Solar Zero? This is a quote from their website

If you sell your property there are three options:

Transfer the agreement to the purchaser of your home

Prepay the remaining monthly payments
Transfer the agreement and the solar system to your new property

So as with a long-ago statement, there is no such thing as a "free lunch". You cannot add to the value of your home, you may not own or control the system and if you sell you have to pay them or move to a new home (which no doubt has a cost). I cannot see how this stacks up as a good choice.

Quinny

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Quinny

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#2598266 5-Nov-2020 13:02

I forgot to say that with the battery you need to consider load and peak load. When things start they use more. One company tried to sell me one with a load of 2kw and a peak load of 4kw and then tell me "oh, you can have a plug for a power cut". Yeah Nah. I wanted off-grid in the city. I have that with the Tesla Powerwall which is 5kw load and 7kw peak (or startup load - ie I can run the oven off-grid and heat pumps if wanted). The whole house is on the backup and I reserve 14% for a power cut. Rest of the time you just don't even know you are working for the PW2 not the grid. Its just works. Worth every cent I paid. There are some great vids on youtube showing people off-grid for months.

richms

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#2598422 5-Nov-2020 19:17

Panel efficiency is really immaterial in the terms of watts per meter², its more important in watts per $ installed since you will run out of allowable grid interconnection long before you're out of space to put it, and there are some steals on lower efficiency panels compared to the top tier stuff.

Also the cost for the install is hugely variable.

Also the cost of a slightly more powerful inverter or more efficient one vs another panel or 2 that will give you better overall output thru the day vs the clipping of the peak you will get on a lesser inverver when the sun is totally tangential to the panel on the peak of the days production on the couple of weeks of the year that the angle is optimal for the panels.

You can chase getting the best out of the best panels, and end up worse kwh/$ than just putting up a few more lower output ones and a slightly undersized inverter that costs less money. They never really bother to do those calculations when quoting on systems.

Richard rich.ms

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#2598533 5-Nov-2020 22:11

Thanks Quinny for all the details.

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

Silvrav

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#3048066 9-Mar-2023 12:39

ren1316:

@webwat, There are a lot of negative comments with solar zero. I do not know if any of them have any personal experience.

I myself find the deal to be favorable. The saving with the power you paid more than offset the cost of the monthly cost of joining the system. I am paying 8c per unit for power (plus line cost etc bringing the unit price to 14cent). The grid credit $ is what Solar Zero will credit your account if the power provider charge you more than 8c per unit.

With Battery, the charging will be during daylight and off peak for use during peak hours, thus lowering the power bill further.

If you want to know more or have further questions, feel free to PM.

Jon.

Hi Jon

How is the installation treating you? and anyone else in this thread that got one installed?

SolarZero did an assessment on our house and it looks really promising - almost 6kwh system and battery with buy back at 15c and we buy power from then if we need grid power at 14c....

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