Global mode over ? Lets see.....

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#1279047 8-Apr-2015 14:16

StarBlazer:
Fascinating. I see nothing in there which shows existing precedent and still struggle to see how GlobalMode is any different to YouShop.

They also state that it is misleading to compare Global Mode to parallel importing of DVDs. IANAL, but it seems like a pretty reasonable comparison to make. In both cases the user is importing content outside of the official New Zealand distribution channels.

StarBlazer

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#1279048 8-Apr-2015 14:19

Benoire: Example A) only stacks up in the New Zealand context IF a local distributer here in New Zealand has exclusive rights to distribute Nikes. Sure if Amazon distribute to someone a pair of Nikes outside of the US, they are breaching their contract but as long as there is no distribution exclusivity here in New Zealand then serving NZ hasn't broken any local distribution rights. This whole argument is around local rights at present, not international.

True and equally, not every TV program or film is restricted by an exclusive distribution agreement in NZ. If my kids watch Blue Peter, does it affect any distributor in NZ? Probably not. But they will eventually want to stop us just because we might watch something they have the rights to even if they are possibly never going to broadcast (presuming the got it as part of a package).

At the end of the day, I understand where the Big 4 are coming from - I just think they are targeting the wrong players. I agree with a previous comment, they should come together and negotiate as a group rather than independently. NZ does not have a big enough market for 5 players (including Netflix).

Procrastination eventually pays off.

Benoire

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#1279050 8-Apr-2015 14:23

@Starblazer, you are right there I would imagine. I suspect that the main thing the 'big 4' want to do is block access to content which they do hold the rights for, rather than everything completely... Fair enough from a business perspective I suppose. I doubt our 'big 4' will ever have enough traction with the content holders to change anything and it will require either court orders to block the content at an ISP level or for the rights holders to initiate something... Either way I am interested to see how this progresses.

Rikkitic

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#1279055 8-Apr-2015 14:31

This thread is now over 250 posts. Makes me wonder what the record is. Does anyone have any numbers?

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#1279056 8-Apr-2015 14:32

mattwnz: From what I have seem going on, I think it is time for content to be regulated, to bring some real competition into the media market. So content is purchased by some central organisation, similar to Pharmac or even Chorus, which gives them better buying power. Then providers can bid for that content, or it is shared between multiple providers. This prevents companies getting monopolies on content such as sport. Really the current model is dead. Separating the content buyer, from the broadcaster I think is the best longer term solution. It may then allow companies like netflix to actually be able to show content in NZ that they actually produced, if they buy back the rights to show it in NZ

Perhaps we need the equivalent of OneMusicNZ for video.

Because it is difficult or impossible to obtain permission from every copyright owner prior to performing, communicating or reproducing their music, OneMusic has been established to provide a link between music users and creators and producers of the music. OneMusic is a joint licensing initiative between APRA (who represent music writers and publishers) and PPNZ Music Licensing (who represent record companies and recording artists). Our role is to administer the rights of our members (i.e. a worldwide repertoire of music writers, publishers and record companies) and enable you to play music in public by taking one simple licence.

Procrastination eventually pays off.

Benoire

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#1279057 8-Apr-2015 14:34

Rikkitic: This thread is now over 250 posts. Makes me wonder what the record is. Does anyone have any numbers?

The Premier League Pass has over 2400 posts so far... that is one of the biggest.

rugrat

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#1279062 8-Apr-2015 14:41

Benoire: Example A) only stacks up in the New Zealand context IF a local distributer here in New Zealand has exclusive rights to distribute Nikes. Sure if Amazon distribute to someone a pair of Nikes outside of the US, they are breaching their contract but as long as there is no distribution exclusivity here in New Zealand then serving NZ hasn't broken any local distribution rights. This whole argument is around local rights at present, not international.

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"Meanwhile, Adidas New Zealand's country manager David Huggett told Radiosport the company was looking to enforce cross-border agreements to stop overseas retailers from selling to New Zealand residents.

I can't remember how it finished, but pretty sure it ended badly for Adidas

In your post "as there is no distribution exclusivity here in New Zealand then serving NZ hasn't broken any local distribution rights. This whole argument is around local rights at present, not international"

Then every company could just make NZ companys sign distribution exclusivity, and there would be no parallel importing of any products, no matter what they are, don't think NZ's parallel importing laws are so companys can use contracts to prevent parallel importing.

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NonprayingMantis

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#1279071 8-Apr-2015 15:04

StarBlazer:
dclegg: The letter sent to Bypass Network Services can be viewed here.

Not unexpectedly, there's a lot of legal posturing based on points not yet proven in a court of law. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

Fascinating. I see nothing in there which shows existing precedent and still struggle to see how GlobalMode is any different to YouShop.

Example being that

a. [Amazon] only has licence to distribute [Nike trainers] to the domestic USA and so restricts distribution to addresses outside the USA to protect worldwide distribution deals. [YouShop] is knowingly violating this restriction on this product by allowing customers of [Amazon] to send the goods to a US address. Perfectly legal and called parallel importing.

or

b. [Netflix US] only has licence to distribute [TV episodes] to the domestic USA and so restricts distribution to addresses outside the USA to protect worldwide distribution deals. [GlobalMode] is knowingly violating this restriction on this product by allowing customers of [Netflix US] to send the goods to a US address. Apparently not legal according to the Big 4.

I know I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said dozens of time before and hopefully the courts will also see it this way also otherwise they will next be going after VPN/DNS providers. I'm also sure Whitcoulls et al are watching this with great interest because if the Big 4 win, it could set a legal precedence for NZ retailers to make the same argument.

I guess the potential difference between the two cases is that in the case of Amazon, they still actually are only sending the goods to a US location.

I also don't think Amazon has specific contract terms that restrict the sale of the goods. They just say "we don't ship to NZ" so Youshop is not actually encouraging people to break amazon's terms.

In the case of Netflix though, the product is most definitely being 'shipped' to NZ. Furthermore, Netflix has terms that state you may not consume Netflix US outside the USA - so people are definitely breaching Netflix's terms by doing it.

In any case, the Canterbury Law professor seems to think it might not be so clear cut, and I'm pretty sure they know w hell of a lot more about law than you or I do, so I will defer to their opinion. seems to me it can be argued both ways.

NonprayingMantis

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#1279073 8-Apr-2015 15:07

dclegg:
StarBlazer:
Fascinating. I see nothing in there which shows existing precedent and still struggle to see how GlobalMode is any different to YouShop.

They also state that it is misleading to compare Global Mode to parallel importing of DVDs. IANAL, but it seems like a pretty reasonable comparison to make. In both cases the user is importing content outside of the official New Zealand distribution channels.

generally with parellel importing you aren't breaching any Ts and Cs to do it, so there may be a difference there.

richms

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#1279074 8-Apr-2015 15:08

Loads of stores have in their terms that you have to be a US resident to create an account etc, Havent seen them put anything in there about where you can use the products you purchase however.

Richard rich.ms

sultanoswing

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#1279079 8-Apr-2015 15:14

richms: Loads of stores have in their terms that you have to be a US resident to create an account etc, Havent seen them put anything in there about where you can use the products you purchase however.

Yeah - otherwise you'd have to remove your USA exclusive Nike trainers when you left US soil (excl. Puerto Rico, American Samoa and, depending on the exact T&C's, US military bases).

jarledb

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#1279081 8-Apr-2015 15:20

Looks like Netflix could be getting stricter about using geo-unblocking services. Their new terms and conditions they now state that they will terminate your account if they suspect you are in violation of the T&C. According to this Reddit users chat with Netflix that also includes using things like VPNs to access the service.

I am not sure if the change in T&C means they are about to get stricter, or if it is more a way of abiding by the demands from content owners.

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NonprayingMantis

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#1279098 8-Apr-2015 15:34

jarledb: Looks like Netflix could be getting stricter about using geo-unblocking services. Their new terms and conditions they now state that they will terminate your account if they suspect you are in violation of the T&C. According to this Reddit users chat with Netflix that also includes using things like VPNs to access the service.

I am not sure if the change in T&C means they are about to get stricter, or if it is more a way of abiding by the demands from content owners.

I'n going to say that reddit thread is a mixture of various levels of wrongness and paranoia.

Netflix has ALWAYS had those in it's Ts and Cs

the old terms are still in google cache so I looked it up.

here is a comparison of them

Reddit thread:

1) Article 6C

From Reddit thread:

You may view a movie or TV show through the Netflix service primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such movie or TV show. The content that may be available to watch will vary by geographic location. Netflix will use technologies to verify your geographic location.

From Sep 2014 terms:

You may view a movie or TV show through the Netflix service primarily within the country in which you have established your account and only in geographic locations where we offer our service and have licensed such movie or TV show. The content that may be available to watch will vary by geographic location. Netflix will use technologies to verify your geographic location.

exactly the same

2) Article 6H

From Reddit thread:

We may terminate or restrict your use of our service, without compensation or notice if you are, or if we suspect that you are (i) in violation of any of these Terms of Use or (ii) engaged in illegal or improper use of the service.

from Sep 2014 terms

We may terminate or restrict your use of our service, without compensation or notice if you are, or if we suspect that you are (i) in violation of any of these Terms of Use or (ii) engaged in illegal or improper use of the service.

exactly the same

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#1279108 8-Apr-2015 15:52

CallPlus just issued this statement:

Callplus, and its subsidiaries Slingshot, Orcon and Flip, strongly believe that access to the internet via Global Mode is completely legal.

The threat of legal action by TVNZ, Mediaworks, SKY and Spark is merely an attempt to restrict consumer choice in favour of their profits.

These companies want to control the internet. They want to restrict what Kiwis can do online.

To claim it’s a business to business issue is nonsense. This is an issue that impacts every Kiwi consumer. These four large corporates want to dictate what you can watch, when you can watch it, and how much you pay for it.

We are in an era of change. The traditional TV model is changing. These companies need to change with it.

Trying to restrict what you do online is old school non Internet thinking, and shows just how out of touch they are.

The Kiwi public are behind us – just look at the comments on news articles over the past days. These companies need to listen to their audience, and work harder to give consumers what they want.

qyiet

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#1279110 8-Apr-2015 15:53

NonprayingMantis:
In the case of Netflix though, the product is most definitely being 'shipped' to NZ.

Not so with a VPN provider. The last public IP address that Netflix delivers the content to is in the US, then over a separate, private, network the data is shipped to wherever the client is. This private network can and probably does use the internet for parts of it's traverse to the end user, but it doesn't have to, and is absolutely no different to the youshop scenario.

I don't know enough about how the providers like UnoTelly who avoid the mechanics of the VPN setup bypass the blocking to comment on them, but I suspect that as far as Netflix is concerned the requests still came from, and were delivered to IPs within the US.

NonprayingMantis:
Furthermore, Netflix has terms that state you may not consume Netflix US outside the USA - so people are definitely breaching Netflix's terms by doing it.

I don't think anyone has ever argued that avoiding geoblocking isn't breaking the ToS, but that is a dispute between Netflix and the user, not another content provider, or the users ISP.

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