Netflix to crack down on unblockers

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#1511319 11-Mar-2016 13:42

shk292:

MikeB4:

shk292:

MikeB4:

If the Studio agrees to sell rights to Netflix to play a movie only in the US. You circumvent T&C's and watch it here in NZ through NF US, the studio has not been pain for you viewing it. So, $10 for US rights only, $20 for US and NZ rights so by circumventing $10 is lost to the studio bringing a reduced ROI, reduced returns on investment will flow onto less investment and a lose, lose scenario.

Wrong, because I'm paring the equivalent charge in the UK or US, so the equivalent revenue share is finding its way back to the rights holder. Just like if I were a US viewer

No, the studio has a price for the US and a price for NZ it is not either or it is both. They are in effect charging you say $20 her not the $10 payable in the US. If NF has paid for ONLY US viewing then only US viewing it is. you may not

like it but that's life.

I give up. You're completely missing the point, deliberately or not I don't care. As others have said, this has become a circular argument and I'm butting out of it

Yep I'm out of it as well. Too many people here who seem to have a vested interest in keeping us from using US Netflix and the like..

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Old3eyes

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#1511331 11-Mar-2016 13:50

old3eyes:

shk292:

MikeB4:

shk292:

MikeB4:

If the Studio agrees to sell rights to Netflix to play a movie only in the US. You circumvent T&C's and watch it here in NZ through NF US, the studio has not been pain for you viewing it. So, $10 for US rights only, $20 for US and NZ rights so by circumventing $10 is lost to the studio bringing a reduced ROI, reduced returns on investment will flow onto less investment and a lose, lose scenario.

Wrong, because I'm paring the equivalent charge in the UK or US, so the equivalent revenue share is finding its way back to the rights holder. Just like if I were a US viewer

No, the studio has a price for the US and a price for NZ it is not either or it is both. They are in effect charging you say $20 her not the $10 payable in the US. If NF has paid for ONLY US viewing then only US viewing it is. you may not

like it but that's life.

I give up. You're completely missing the point, deliberately or not I don't care. As others have said, this has become a circular argument and I'm butting out of it

Yep I'm out of it as well. Too many people here who seem to have a vested interest in keeping us from using US Netflix and the like..

Thats totally incorrect. US Netflix is not available in NZ, its not for sale. You cant make up vested interests to cover up the fact that its bypassing a business

Im out too, too many here choose to pretend that bypassing is totally acceptable, thats the vested interst. Its cheaper so say go away, etc. Who needs rules when there is money to be saved

Rikkitic

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#1511336 11-Mar-2016 14:01

tdgeek:

You'd love to pay for it thats great. Subscribe to the service that has the rights for it in NZ, that helps them pay for it. Whoever that is here in NZ isnt stopping you

So why the "they wont let me"?

D'oh, there isn't one. You are making things up to support an untenable argument. Give me the address the iView agent in NZ, or the iPlayer distributor, or anyone else selling the content I want. They don't exist. That is my whole point. We do not have any option to access this content here. That is why we go overseas. Whether it is paid content or 'free' is not the issue. The issue is it cannot be had for any price.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#1511346 11-Mar-2016 14:16

Rikkitic:

tdgeek:

You'd love to pay for it thats great. Subscribe to the service that has the rights for it in NZ, that helps them pay for it. Whoever that is here in NZ isnt stopping you

So why the "they wont let me"?

D'oh, there isn't one. You are making things up to support an untenable argument. Give me the address the iView agent in NZ, or the iPlayer distributor, or anyone else selling the content I want. They don't exist. That is my whole point. We do not have any option to access this content here. That is why we go overseas. Whether it is paid content or 'free' is not the issue. The issue is it cannot be had for any price.

Its not available here. Thats quite simple. Or other titles may be here, on other provider(s)

And Im not the one making things up, as you well know. If your fine breaking civil laws etc etc to save money or to watch a product that may be here, or may not be here yet, you've already made that point abiout your regard to laws.

Far easier to say, I know its wrong but I do it anyway. No one here has an issue with that. Its the fake justifications, and the single poster here that continually is uber aggressive in every post that takes it away from an active debate, as usual.

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#1511347 11-Mar-2016 14:16

tdgeek:

Thats totally incorrect. US Netflix is not available in NZ, its not for sale. You cant make up vested interests to cover up the fact that its bypassing a business

Im out too, too many here choose to pretend that bypassing is totally acceptable, thats the vested interst. Its cheaper so say go away, etc. Who needs rules when there is money to be saved

It's a good thing then that parallel importing is an explicitly protected activity, and that the copyright act includes exemptions for bypassing protections that are solely about regional discrimination.

Bypassing region blocking is both perfectly acceptable, and completely legal. Whether doing so breaches Netflix's terms and conditions is between customers and Netflix and is solely a civil matter.

Rikkitic

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#1511356 11-Mar-2016 14:27

tdgeek:

Far easier to say, I know its wrong but I do it anyway. No one here has an issue with that. Its the fake justifications, and the single poster here that continually is uber aggressive in every post that takes it away from an active debate, as usual.

I would be interested to know your definition of an 'active debate'. Is it as cloudy as your definition of illegal activity?

To my mind an active debate is presenting your point of view and logically defending it when others poke holes in it. That is what I do. No aggression here, just a degree of exasperation. Sometimes communication seems more difficult than it ought to be.

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grant_k

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#1511359 11-Mar-2016 14:33

Rikkitic:

tdgeek:

You'd love to pay for it thats great. Subscribe to the service that has the rights for it in NZ, that helps them pay for it. Whoever that is here in NZ isnt stopping you

So why the "they wont let me"?

D'oh, there isn't one. You are making things up to support an untenable argument. Give me the address the iView agent in NZ, or the iPlayer distributor, or anyone else selling the content I want. They don't exist. That is my whole point. We do not have any option to access this content here. That is why we go overseas. Whether it is paid content or 'free' is not the issue. The issue is it cannot be had for any price.

I've kept out of this very lengthy thread until now, but want to add my voice in support of Rikkitic. We are very much on the same page when it comes to the issue of wanting to pay for content that isn't for sale in NZ. For much of the past year my wife and I have been watching various series on Rail Journeys around the UK, Europe and now the USA. They are presented by a British ex-MP who wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea but if you can get past the appallingly coloured jackets he wears, the content is worth watching if you enjoy travel programmes which explain the history of the area, and in particular, the history of the railways.

Choice TV has picked up various series we have seen on BBC iPlayer recently, but by no means all. If Choice have something on which we haven't already seen, we are happy to support them, but most of the time, the programmes they show are quite dated. The other channels TV1/2/3 and Prime only scratch the surface of what is available. When questioned about this, a friend of mine who works for one of the mainstream channels commented, yeah we can get those programmes too, but we choose not to because "they don't rate". In other words, they can't sell enough advertising in and around such programmes.

All of the mainstream channels in NZ have made this same commercial decision which leaves viewers such as ourselves and Rikkitic out in the cold. By using Geo-unblocking, we are no longer left out in the cold, and nobody is being deprived of any revenue because they choose not to serve us. I don't see what is morally wrong with that stance until such time as another provider pops up who will take our money and provide the service. We already pay Curiosity Stream US$2.99 per month for access to their factual content which is great, but again, a lot of the BBC stuff is not available there or anywhere else except via iPlayer. Until that situation changes, we are left with no other option if we want to view these programmes online.

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tdgeek

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#1511388 11-Mar-2016 14:35

Rikkitic:

tdgeek:

Far easier to say, I know its wrong but I do it anyway. No one here has an issue with that. Its the fake justifications, and the single poster here that continually is uber aggressive in every post that takes it away from an active debate, as usual.

I would be interested to know your definition of an 'active debate'. Is it as cloudy as your definition of illegal activity?

To my mind an active debate is presenting your point of view and logically defending it when others poke holes in it. That is what I do. No aggression here, just a degree of exasperation. Sometimes communication seems more difficult than it ought to be.

Exasperation when you dont get the agreement you seek, that has been seen before in your posts, and commented on by others. But thats fine,oh and its not communication, its agreement that your seeking. Not a discussion

MikeB4

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#1511392 11-Mar-2016 14:39

It's goodbye from me and exit stage left.....

tdgeek

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#1511395 11-Mar-2016 14:42

Kyanar:

tdgeek:

Thats totally incorrect. US Netflix is not available in NZ, its not for sale. You cant make up vested interests to cover up the fact that its bypassing a business

Im out too, too many here choose to pretend that bypassing is totally acceptable, thats the vested interst. Its cheaper so say go away, etc. Who needs rules when there is money to be saved

It's a good thing then that parallel importing is an explicitly protected activity, and that the copyright act includes exemptions for bypassing protections that are solely about regional discrimination.

Bypassing region blocking is both perfectly acceptable, and completely legal. Whether doing so breaches Netflix's terms and conditions is between customers and Netflix and is solely a civil matter.

Parallel importing is legal, import what you wish, no one has ever stated otherwise. How can it be legal when you them say its a civil matter? Civil matters are legal matters they are not crimes. It just down to picking what rules to break IMHO, and save money, ansd while its been stated that it snot abiout that, it is, as stated many times here when comparing pricing

Rikkitic

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#1511412 11-Mar-2016 15:00

Yeah, I'm gone again too. Don't see any discussions here. Thanks for the support, grant_k.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

Kyanar

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#1511482 11-Mar-2016 16:51

tdgeek:

Parallel importing is legal, import what you wish, no one has ever stated otherwise. How can it be legal when you them say its a civil matter? Civil matters are legal matters they are not crimes. It just down to picking what rules to break IMHO, and save money, ansd while its been stated that it snot abiout that, it is, as stated many times here when comparing pricing

Well actually you exactly stated that you cannot import what you wish, when you claimed that accessing georestricted content is illegal. It's not illegal, and it's a protected action as it's effectively parallell importing. And actually a breach of contract isn't a civil or legal matter, it's a contractual matter. Laws do exist to intervene in disputes that cannot be resolved according to the terms of the contract, but ultimately it is not illegal.

tdgeek

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#1511519 11-Mar-2016 18:26

Kyanar:

tdgeek:

Parallel importing is legal, import what you wish, no one has ever stated otherwise. How can it be legal when you them say its a civil matter? Civil matters are legal matters they are not crimes. It just down to picking what rules to break IMHO, and save money, ansd while its been stated that it snot abiout that, it is, as stated many times here when comparing pricing

Well actually you exactly stated that you cannot import what you wish, when you claimed that accessing georestricted content is illegal. It's not illegal, and it's a protected action as it's effectively parallell importing. And actually a breach of contract isn't a civil or legal matter, it's a contractual matter. Laws do exist to intervene in disputes that cannot be resolved according to the terms of the contract, but ultimately it is not illegal.

Show me where I said geo unblocking is illegal? You stated its a civil matter, which is law. Torts. Contract law is a civil matter, torts. Parallel importing is not illegal, its been tested as legal, relating to physical goods, thats well known. I don't believe breaching a contract is illegal, I don;t believe anyone state that. To round out the discussion its only breaching contact so all good.

Hammerer

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#1511589 11-Mar-2016 20:50

tdgeek:

Show me where I said geo unblocking is illegal?

I couldn't find it when I searched.

But I did find when tdgeek and Rikkitic found common ground in this thread. Since then we've gone around again:

tdgeek:

Rikkitic:

Why can't local distributors maintain two or more catalogs side by side? There would be the Netflix NZ catalog, but also the US one for an extra fee. I don't see why it always has to be an all or nothing deal. Also, I don't see why the overseas catalog would necessarily have to be sold by any particular distributor. Maybe it could be offered to the highest bidder, with the only restriction being that the bidder has to be operating within the boundaries of the country it is bidding from. So Netflix, along with other distributors, would bid on the overseas catalog rights and Sky might end up with them while Netflix continues to operate the NZ catalog. Other overseas content producers, like BBC, could do the same, with the local distributor acting as an agent.

For me, and I think for a lot of people, the issue is not getting content for free, but getting freedom of choice. The things I want to watch just are not available here, at any price. Yet I know they are available elsewhere. This is what motivates geo-unblocking in the first place.

That is the key.

Take Netflix's own content. They can sell it here under Netflix NZ, or sell it to a distributor here. It's here, thats all that matters

Other content would be bought. Maybe by Netflix NZ, Lightbox, Neon. It would be here.

Depending on your tastes, you might have one or more of the services, but all the content that is available globally, is avaliable here

Would this keep everyone happy? All the contect is here and geoblock bypassing is not needed

Sam91

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#1511600 11-Mar-2016 21:19

Even if we agree that it's fine to access to US Netflix from NZ, the following question still remains. Do you think it's ok to pay for only one Netflix subscription fee and then access content from 30 different Netflix catalogues? I feel it's a different argument altogether.

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