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Fred99
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  #2758524 11-Aug-2021 11:45
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Technofreak:

 

 

 

Don't you agree a less dysfunctional MIQ booking system would allow them to make better use of the capacity that they have? That way they could have cohorts that use more of the hotel capacity.

 

 

No.

 

Because in the end it's simply a numbers game all other things being equal.

 

See other discussion re infection of vaccinated MIQ/Border workers etc.  The future risk has increased (due to Delta) at present arrival rates, it's certainly not the right time to increase arrival numbers.

 

 




Technofreak
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  #2758548 11-Aug-2021 11:56
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Fred99:

 

Technofreak:

 

 

 

Don't you agree a less dysfunctional MIQ booking system would allow them to make better use of the capacity that they have? That way they could have cohorts that use more of the hotel capacity.

 

 

No.

 

Because in the end it's simply a numbers game all other things being equal.

 

See other discussion re infection of vaccinated MIQ/Border workers etc.  The future risk has increased (due to Delta) at present arrival rates, it's certainly not the right time to increase arrival numbers.

 

 

 

 

I doubt the increased risk from the delta strain has had any bearing on the way MIQ is being managed.

 

Assume we agree on reduced numbers for the sake of the argument, that's still not an excuse not to fix the MIQ system. There would be benefits all round. Those wanting to come home would have a much more clearly defined pathway and we could reduce the number of rooms were are paying for.  Win, win.





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Fred99
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  #2758550 11-Aug-2021 12:02
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Technofreak:

 

I doubt the increased risk from the delta strain has had any bearing on the way MIQ is being managed.

 

 

That's a very strange opinion when MBIE say:

 

 

The new variants of the virus, and continued outbreaks overseas, have meant we’ve had to adjust our approach over time.

 




DS248
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  #2758556 11-Aug-2021 12:22
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Fred99:

 

DS248:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where did that come from?  The official data does not support the conclusion you've made from snippet.

 

From Singapore MOH:

 

As of 5 August 2021, 67% of the population have completed their full vaccination regimen under the national vaccination programme and 78% have received at least one dose. Vaccination reduces the risk of infection and serious disease when infected with COVID-19. Over the last 28 days, among the 80 local cases infected with COVID-19 who are seriously ill [1], 72 are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated, while only 8 are fully vaccinated. A highly vaccinated resident population is crucial to our safe reopening and transition towards an endemic COVID-19 world.

 

Graphic from Singapore MoH: https://www.moh.gov.sg/#daily-graphs

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, the Singapore data indicate that the vaccines are effective in protecting against severe illness.  But that is not what my post was about.

 

In regard to protection against infection, you are not digging deep enough into the data.

 

 

 

My "Tested positive" data are from exactly the same source you used, albeit for slightly different date. Note the case numbers down the far right hand side of the image you posted.

 

The data I based my table on were published as for 6 Aug* (see. https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/update-on-local-covid-19-situation-(6-aug2021)

 

The case numbers at that time were 1,184 (full vaccination), 896 (1 dose), and 677 (unvaccinated), which gives the percentages in my table (42.9%, 32.5%, 24.6%)

 

(*I misread the date as 8 Aug - as per link it was 6 Aug - must put glasses on next time!  It was data I extracted a day or two ago).  Doubt it makes much difference.

 

As stated, the percentages I gave for vaccination status were as at 27 July***, which is the midpoint of the 28 day period to 8 Aug (for period to 6 Aug the vaccination status should have been for 25 July, which would have been slightly lower).  The vaccination data I used were sourced from https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination.  Not certain if the figures are available for earlier dates - I have been recording them hence have historical data.  The vaccination status figures you give are for 5 Aug, so are not directly comparable with the 28-day infection numbers in the plot you reproduced.

 

 

 

For what it is worth, I have re-done my table for the latest data currently available from https://www.moh.gov.sg/ (as at noon, 11 Aug NZ time).  Draw your own conclusions based on the actual data or believe the publicity.

 

This time I included the actual case numbers in case you are still suspicious of the data.

 

 

 

 

Case data from https://www.moh.gov.sg/news-highlights/details/update-on-local-covid-19-situation-(9-aug). Vaccination status to 26 July from https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/vaccination.

 

Similarly, the even stronger Israeli data** I plotted earlier (#2758350) are directly from health.gov.il (** 20x larger case dataset).

 

 

 

Edit: Initially forgot to change the % figures in the last column of the table! Fixed.  

 

*** Oh, I see my vaccination figures in the original table were actually for 26 July (~30 columns between the dates and vaccination percentages so had to scroll across - got one line out).  Apologies for the mis-steps :(.

 

Plus a couple of other minor edits .. !!! (less haste).

 

 


ezbee
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  #2758558 11-Aug-2021 12:22
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I'm pretty sure the problems we saw with hotel ventilation upgrades, passing infections in MIQ sent a scare through the system.
Repeated Grand Millennium , Grand Mercure problems and such, did show systems were being tested to a higher degree by new variants.

 

A lot was said about this through example in April.  A lot earlier also, though we used terms 'new variants' at that point.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300280833/covid19-arrivals-at-two-auckland-miq-hotels-halted-amid-inquiry-into-ventilation-system

""
“As the Ministry of Health advised the Health Select Committee last week, we have learned over recent months that, with the new variants of the virus, aerosol transmission is playing a greater role than was observed initially,” Bliss said.

 

“As the virus changes and adapts, so does MIQ, so a lot of work has been going into investigating the role ventilation may play in airborne transmissions.”

 

The temporary shut-down of the two facilities will mean a loss of 652 rooms in MIQ's capacity.
""


Ge0rge
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  #2758567 11-Aug-2021 12:34
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Technofreak:

 

1. There's regularly been 2000 unallocated beds each day

 

2. I have heard that there is regularly 2000 empty rooms.

 

3. I doubt the increased risk from the delta strain has had any bearing on the way MIQ is being managed.

 

4. If you read that link it tells you they now no longer show how many empty rooms they have.

 

 

 

 

1 & 2. You've heard wrong. Neither of your statements are anywhere close to being correct.

 

3. You doubt wrong.

 

4. The total number of rooms has not changed. There is more than enough information provided in the links above by @Fred99 to explain the capacity, the usage, and that it isn't being hidden.

 

 

 

 

 

 


On2or3wheels
195 posts

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  #2758575 11-Aug-2021 13:04
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Plus you have to staff the MIQ's & we know there's a shortage of nurses.

 

Nurses will also be busy vaccinating.

 

Tax payers are funding the MIQ's. Even when they charge it isn't covering the full cost.


 
 
 

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tdgeek
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  #2758578 11-Aug-2021 13:12
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MoH Standup

 

Over 46000 jabs yesterday

 

2% ahead of target

 

If we get a CT here its instant L4 lockdown, nationally or regionally


Technofreak
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  #2758579 11-Aug-2021 13:12
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Ge0rge:

 

Technofreak:

 

1. There's regularly been 2000 unallocated beds each day

 

2. I have heard that there is regularly 2000 empty rooms.

 

3. I doubt the increased risk from the delta strain has had any bearing on the way MIQ is being managed.

 

4. If you read that link it tells you they now no longer show how many empty rooms they have.

 

 

 

 

1 & 2. You've heard wrong. Neither of your statements are anywhere close to being correct.

 

3. You doubt wrong.

 

4. The total number of rooms has not changed. There is more than enough information provided in the links above by @Fred99 to explain the capacity, the usage, and that it isn't being hidden.

 

 

1 & 2. So are you telling me the reports in the news about the empty rooms are incorrect.

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/446101/2000-miq-rooms-empty-each-day-as-nzers-struggle-to-secure-a-place 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-2000-miq-rooms-empty-each-day-but-new-zealanders-struggle-to-book-a-place/AOZNVYCSA2ZYQRV5GZ3R3ETUUI/

 

3. I should have been more specific. I doubt the delta variant has had any bearing on the number of MIQ rooms being allocated.

 

4. I wasn't saying the capacity wasn't being shown I was saying the number of empty rooms wasn't being shown.





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Batman

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  #2758581 11-Aug-2021 13:16
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tdgeek:

MoH Standup

...

If we get a CT here its instant L4 lockdown, nationally or regionally



We just don't know how lucky we are. That guy with delta inWtg that did the proper tourist thing and went all over and we had no cases.

Technofreak
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  #2758583 11-Aug-2021 13:21
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Fred99:

 

That's a very strange opinion when MBIE say:

 

 

The new variants of the virus, and continued outbreaks overseas, have meant we’ve had to adjust our approach over time.

 

 

 

I should have been more specific when I was was replying to your comment,  The future risk has increased (due to Delta) at present arrival rates, it's certainly not the right time to increase arrival numbers.

 

What  I should have said was; I doubt the increased risk from the delta strain has had any bearing on the way MIQ is allocating the number of rooms.

 

I also posted this earlier;

 

Assume we agree on reduced numbers for the sake of the argument, that's still not an excuse not to fix the MIQ system. There would be benefits all round. Those wanting to come home would have a much more clearly defined pathway and we could reduce the number of rooms were are paying for.  Win, win.

 

I'm also interested to know whether or not you think the MIQ booking system needs fixing.





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Technofreak
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  #2758585 11-Aug-2021 13:23
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Batman:
tdgeek:

 

MoH Standup

 

...

 

If we get a CT here its instant L4 lockdown, nationally or regionally

 



We just don't know how lucky we are. That guy with delta inWtg that did the proper tourist thing and went all over and we had no cases.

 

I think you also need to include the Rio De La Plata as well when you talk about luck.





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Ge0rge
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  #2758589 11-Aug-2021 13:34
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Technofreak:

 

 

 

1 & 2. So are you telling me the reports in the news about the empty rooms are incorrect.

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/446101/2000-miq-rooms-empty-each-day-as-nzers-struggle-to-secure-a-place 

 

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-2000-miq-rooms-empty-each-day-but-new-zealanders-struggle-to-book-a-place/AOZNVYCSA2ZYQRV5GZ3R3ETUUI/

 

 

Yes, I am. Average occupancy over the week preceding that article was around 71%. One of the articles, well down the page, does explain why some rooms were empty, and why some were off-line.  Rational explanations don't make for click-bait headlines though, right?


Fred99
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  #2758594 11-Aug-2021 13:41
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NSW cases today:

 

 

2 new deaths (including a man in his 30s)

 

Continued spread around NSW.

 

Hospitalised, ICU, and cases on ventilators arriving at a rate faster than they are being cleared.

 

And a lockdown that's not working well enough - but is still costing billions of dollars and causing misery to many.

 

 


ezbee
2405 posts

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  #2758595 11-Aug-2021 13:48
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If you were an Australian travel situation does not seem to be easier, maybe reverse.
Government warnings are not to travel, and even with MIQ every traveler presents a risk. 

 

Australia Hotel Quarantine: You Will Pay $3000-$5000 Returning Home, Here Are State Details.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/07/13/australia-nsw-hotel-quarantine-travelers-pay-3000/?sh=38ef0e624283

""
But last week Prime Minister Scott Morrison said that will change dramatically. International arrivals will be culled by 50%º–from 8,000 to 4,000 a week–to lift pressure on the hotel quarantine system. The number of weekly flights too will be slashed accordingly.
""

 

Australia seem to be very tough on leaving too.

 

New COVID rules for Australians who live overseas and visit home causing fear and uncertainty
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-06/covid-rules-australians-overseas-visit-home-change-exemption/100356366

""
Australians who live overseas will no longer be granted an automatic exemption from the ongoing international travel ban, meaning they will have to submit a "compelling reason" to return to their home.
""
Under the current rules, Australians have to seek permission to leave the country. Common reasons to leave are for work, urgent medical reasons, compassionate reasons or travel in the national interest.

 

Permissions can also be granted for a "compelling reason", with no intention to return for three months or longer.
""

 

Although one state leader did say some weeks back that they were sick of people who had been overseas and back 3 times or more during the pandemic.

 

Australia has become Hotel California !


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