2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2438629 15-Mar-2020 15:25

mattwnz:

Fred99:

The systems we're going to have to have in place are going to have to deal with stupid and inconsiderate people

That is the problem with self isolation, it relies on everyone being considerate and following common sense, and assumes everyone has good hygiene practices, when children often don't. That is why I do wonder if the government shouldn't be leasing some large hotels and quarantining people returning from Australia, the UK etc, in those, as it is likely some of these people returning will have it. If they have it bad, it is going to cost us in hospital resources.

This virus is unprecedented in NZs history, and calls for extreme measures.

New Zealand is not a Police State, Fascist State or Socialist State, we are a Democratic State with an excellent health care system for our size in terms of population, employment, income and most importantly, freedoms !!

You can only rule for and enforce that rule so far in relation to the; ignorant, stupid, selfish and inconsiderate, otherwise we will become a Police State, Fascist State or Socialist State and yes Darwinism will play a part in this.

I for one love our country and its freedoms and health care system, for all its faults. This COVID-19 CRISIS is a time to not only think of ourselves but everybody and to pull together as one and help each other out. Knock on your neighbours door and ask if they need help, not shut yourself off and say F** to the rest. As I said way earlier in this topic, if need be and if wanted, I will come out of retirement and go back into nursing during this period.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

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#2438630 15-Mar-2020 15:26

kornflake: May have been answered already, are tourists with return tickets in less than 14 days been turned around at the boarder?

Noone knows. Tba

Scott3

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#2438631 15-Mar-2020 15:27

freitasm: Yesterday someone posted a screenshot of a Melbourne flight to NZ that was moved by Air NZ to an hour earlier so it would arrive here tonight before midnight.

Disgusting.

While I don't like the idea of mass arrivals turning up a the streets & nightclubs of New Zealand, I find it hard to hate on the airlines for this.

Reading between the lines, the government wants to re-repatriate as many of our people as possible ASAP. The 33 hour window prior to the self isolation requirement kicking in, is a pretty strong carrot for those in Aussie, but is realistically too tight for those coming from the highest risk location of Europe.

If the government wasn't happy with the airlines actions there is no way they would have extended the deadline until 1am Monday.

From this point of view, the airlines have been greatly helpful, with the likes of Air NZ putting on bigger planes too get more people home.

With the doubling time potentially as short as three days, getting people hone a day or two faster materially impacted the odds of them carrying the virus...

Of course the counterpoint is that the massive scramble to get home complete compromises our intent to "flatten the curve", and a significant number of infected are walking out of the airports as I type.

Fred99

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#2438632 15-Mar-2020 15:31

Batman:

i'll tell you what they're thinking, rightly or wrongly, flatten the curve.

And that gets exponentially more difficult with each new case.

Two today - one from Brisbane, they need to contact trace passengers from the flight. The one in Queenstown - then a domestic flight to trace as well a flight from Doha. Good luck with that - we'll need it.

There's a plane from Dubai on the tarmac in Auckland right now - with a sick passenger they're trying to deal with.

No idea what they'll do with the probable plague ship in Akaroa. Sure the probable case (and two close contacts) have been isolated / quarantined - that's not been very effective on cruise ships. So what next - send the ship away? One case turned out to be >700 on the Diamond Princess - and that all happened very fast. The best chance to reduce infection rate amongst passengers and crew in Chch would be to get them all off the ship. I can't think of anywhere in Chch where you could hold 3700 people in isolation/quarantine for a fortnight. No airline is probably going to want to take them home.

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#2438636 15-Mar-2020 15:37

Planes and cruise ships are bad for spreading infection. The fact that people are coming from countries like USA and Australia where the outbreaks are not considered to be bad tells me that there are signifigantly more cases out there than are tested for or confirmed. Also airports etc would be breeding grounds for flu's getting sick etc.

I suspect we will be a week or two behind Australia in terms of the spread. Preparation is key.

Taking official advise is key.

Be Hygienic, and Vigilant. If you do get sick, isolate yourself. Wash your hands.

Flattening the curve is pretty much the only option we have right now, taking pressure off the health system is our most sensible option. Anything to slow the rate of transmission will help.

Oblivian

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#2438637 15-Mar-2020 15:39

Fred99:
No idea what they'll do with the probable plague ship in Akaroa. Sure the probable case (and two close contacts) have been isolated / quarantined - that's not been very effective on cruise ships. So what next - send the ship away? One case turned out to be >700 on the Diamond Princess - and that all happened very fast. The best chance to reduce infection rate amongst passengers and crew in Chch would be to get them all off the ship. I can't think of anywhere in Chch where you could hold 3700 people in isolation/quarantine for a fortnight. No airline is probably going to want to take them home.

Take with grain of salt. But someone 'onboard' has said they have since been advised they are under the same border control from 14days intl travel now. And Wellington is also in doubt. They only had till the 17 to get home anyway before princess park up

Implore many to view the moh conf from 1430. They asked about the ship and midnight flights that many are commenting on.
In short they don't want a rush of flights or risks taken, but there is provision for discression for those due at the time. And yes, it's somewhat a repatriation period.

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mattwnz

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#2438638 15-Mar-2020 15:40

FineWine:

New Zealand is not a Police State, Fascist State or Socialist State, we are a Democratic State with an excellent health care system for our size in terms of population, employment, income and most importantly, freedoms !!

You can only rule for and enforce that rule so far in relation to the; ignorant, stupid, selfish and inconsiderate, otherwise we will become a Police State, Fascist State or Socialist State and yes Darwinism will play a part in this.

I for one love our country and its freedoms and health care system, for all its faults. This COVID-19 CRISIS is a time to not only think of ourselves but everybody and to pull together as one and help each other out. Knock on your neighbours door and ask if they need help, not shut yourself off and say F** to the rest. As I said way earlier in this topic, if need be and if wanted, I will come out of retirement and go back into nursing during this period.

I don't think any of the requirements that the WHO has asked countries to do, to control and eliminate this virus, would require NZ to become a police state etc. That would be last resort stuff. We did initially quarantine everyone arriving back from China into a quarantine station, rather than self isolation, due to the risk of them having the virus. These countries also appear to now have community transmission as well, so it is possibly that some of these people coming back may have the virus.

China have gone to the extreme to control it, and it appears to have worked. But NZ should never need to go to that extreme. But the government has already warned that people who do not follow self isolation requirements will have to go into quarantine, and there will be spot checks. But we do want to make sure that there aren't any loopholes where the virus can leak into the country.

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#2438639 15-Mar-2020 15:40

Oblivian:
Fred99:

No idea what they'll do with the probable plague ship in Akaroa. Sure the probable case (and two close contacts) have been isolated / quarantined - that's not been very effective on cruise ships. So what next - send the ship away? One case turned out to be >700 on the Diamond Princess - and that all happened very fast. The best chance to reduce infection rate amongst passengers and crew in Chch would be to get them all off the ship. I can't think of anywhere in Chch where you could hold 3700 people in isolation/quarantine for a fortnight. No airline is probably going to want to take them home.

Take with grain of salt. But someone 'onboard' has said they have since been advised they are under the same border control from 14days intl travel now. And Wellington is also in doubt. They only had till the 17 to get home anyway before princess park up

Implore many to view the moh conf from 1430. They asked about the ship and midnight flights that many are commenting on.
In short they don't want a rush of flights or risks taken, but there is provision for discression for those due at the time. And yes, it's somewhat a repatriation period.

send the ship back to where it came from?

mattwnz

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#2438640 15-Mar-2020 15:44

Scott3:

Reading between the lines, the government wants to re-repatriate as many of our people as possible ASAP.

I can't understand why they would want to do this? If they do return, why wouldn't we want them to self isolate for 14 days, to minimize the risk of NZers here getting it from them.? There is a high risk of at least some having the virus as Australias numbers are not good.

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#2438642 15-Mar-2020 15:49

https://youtube.com/watch?v=qhCT0bt-4cw&feature=youtu.be&t=620

Fred99

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#2438644 15-Mar-2020 15:56

Batman:

send the ship back to where it came from?

Well last port was Dunedin, it was made in Italy, flagged as Bermudan, probably ultimately headed for the ship breakers yards in Bangladesh.

Visiting that last port might be much sooner than expected - might be the fate of many of these monstrosities - even as their very next voyages.

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#2438646 15-Mar-2020 16:09

mattwnz:
Scott3:

Reading between the lines, the government wants to re-repatriate as many of our people as possible ASAP.

I can't understand why they would want to do this? Surely they are better to remain where they are. Or if they do return, to then self isolate for 14 days, to minimize the risk of NZers here getting it from them. Why bring them in when there is a high risk of at least some having the virus, and they aren't going to be isolated from the community at all ?

You footing the bill to house them away from home? And the charter flight back after 2 weeks? Because anyone away won't want to.

Posts read like you've got distrust. making assumptions/picking holes in a plan we don't know details of - an evolving thing we personally don't have control over other than immeidate family and see how it develops right now. Do you outright know there won't be staff at airport tonight pulling people aside? (Watch the video..)

I get it, you don't think enough is being done right now compared to the world and want assurances. We're all in the same boat. But at some point we need to accept people paid more than us are working behind doors hatching and what we think should happen, may well be considered

Scott3

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#2438647 15-Mar-2020 16:10

mattwnz:

Scott3:

Reading between the lines, the government wants to re-repatriate as many of our people as possible ASAP.

I can't understand why they would want to do this? Surely they are better to remain where they are. Or if they do return, to then self isolate for 14 days, to minimize the risk of NZers here getting it from them. Why bring them in when there is a high risk of at least some having the virus, and they aren't going to be isolated from the community at all ?

Eventually New Zealand based holiday makers will want to return home. Most are citizens, it would breach Internationale immigration norms for us to deny their return.

Given that the situation in Aussie isn't that bad yet, but risks getting out of hand, it may have been decided that it is safer to get them back into NZ now.

Personally I would have be more comfortable if the announcement was effective immediately.

But I also think we should replace self isolation with self quarantine, and a law passed setting out the requirements and penalties for breaching.

"requiring" self isolation without a law to back it up is troublesome to me.

[edit] - Also, once the bulk of New Zealanders that want to come home are repatriated, there is little point in airlines continuing to run frequent passenger flights. This may act as a better barrier to travel than the self isolation requirements.

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#2438649 15-Mar-2020 16:19

Fred99:

Batman:

send the ship back to where it came from?

Well last port was Dunedin, it was made in Italy, flagged as Bermudan, probably ultimately headed for the ship breakers yards in Bangladesh.

Visiting that last port might be much sooner than expected - might be the fate of many of these monstrosities - even as their very next voyages.

Been on 2 cruises around the Caribbean , enjoyed them both.

We are looking forward to our next cruise, possibly around the Mediterranean or up through Asia.

mattwnz

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#2438652 15-Mar-2020 16:32

Scott3:

Eventually New Zealand based holiday makers will want to return home. Most are citizens, it would breach Internationale immigration norms for us to deny their return.

Given that the situation in Aussie isn't that bad yet, but risks getting out of hand, it may have been decided that it is safer to get them back into NZ now.

Personally I would have be more comfortable if the announcement was effective immediately.

But I also think we should replace self isolation with self quarantine, and a law passed setting out the requirements and penalties for breaching.

"requiring" self isolation without a law to back it up is troublesome to me.

[edit] - Also, once the bulk of New Zealanders that want to come home are repatriated, there is little point in airlines continuing to run frequent passenger flights. This may act as a better barrier to travel than the self isolation requirements.

I don't think we want to block their return. My query is why we want them all to return all in one go, before the self isolation rules come into effect at 12-1am, so they avoid the need to self isolate. But I do see your point regarding planes are likely not going to be running just to carry a few people back at later dates, and those people may end up getting stuck.

But I think we should be isolating them for 14 days, as we have with other countries like italy and china, iran etc. Yes I agree that we should be self quarantining people rather, than just self isolating. Isn't there already a penalty fee for not self isolating when they should be.

The Aussie situation does appear quite bad based on the numbers. It is worse than USAs case rate per million. But it is very difficult to tell because of the delay in showing symptoms. Apparently UKs rate is significantly worse than the numbers show. Apparently according to an expert it around 10,000 people over there could have it, but aren't yet showing symptoms

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