2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2458522 9-Apr-2020 16:29

FineWine:
Some experiences of the confined.....

* I used to spin that toilet paper like I was on Wheel of Fortune. Now I turn it like I'm cracking a safe.

Very funny :-)

Squish the loo roll so the inner is oval.

I'd swear my kids when they were younger would use a half a roll per sitting. I could hear the roll spinning around like a pokie machine on speed
A quick squish put paid to the excessive use.

It was that or threatened them with the old public service brown loo paper. Slick on one side, sandpaper on the other. It would either spread the poop or rasp it off.

Eye watering results either way.

kingdragonfly

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#2458524 9-Apr-2020 16:29

interest.co.nz: One of the country's largest retailers has provided details of how much of the $6.6 billion Government wage subsidy it has received and where it has gone

... The Warehouse Group provided a business update to the NZX.

The company's retail outlets are closed but the group’s brands are now operational in a limited capacity for essential items only (both online and available to be contacted over the phone) after agreement from the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (“MBIE”).

The company stated early on that it was intending to pay its 11,000 staff full wages during the four-week period of the lockdown.

Since then it has applied for the Government’s wage subsidy scheme.

And the company says it has received $67.7 million in total to support its employees over a 12-week period.

"The split by brands is $52 million to the The Warehouse Limited (including Warehouse Stationery), $12.1 million to Noel Leeming, $3.2 million to Torpedo7 and $0.4 million to the TheMarket.com.

...The company has been working with its existing banking institutions and said it has secured $150 million of additional banking facilities, extending the total debt facilities available to $330 million.

"These additional bank facilities are currently undrawn and would allow for the refinancing of the Group’s NZX listed bond of $125 million that matures in June 2020."

frankv

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#2458526 9-Apr-2020 16:31

mattwnz:

Apparently it was all to do with not having the resources / accommodation for them based on the huge incoming flow, so self isolation was seen as the only option, even though you only need a few to not do it properly , for leaks to occur. But I would have thought they could have restricted that incoming flow, to a level that they could cope with it. Closing the borders should have provided that ability to control in incoming numbers of NZers returning from overseas, so all could be quarantined properly. It would have led to delays and inconvenience for travelers. But if all countries were doing this, then it could have been managed.

I can't see that would have worked. If we restricted incoming numbers too much, airlines would have stopped flying to NZ, because 30 or 100 or whatever people per day wouldn't be economic. Which would have left thousands of Kiwis with no way home. Look at the people stuck in Peru, for example.

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#2458531 9-Apr-2020 16:34

frankv:

Therefore, I would like to see your evidence for wanting enforced quarantine. How many people have returned home since the lockdown, AND actually spread the virus outside their bubble? Are you trying to solve a problem that didn't even exist? Who are these experts that wanted the government to put arrivals into enforced quarantine?

So you are saying we can spend four weeks inside our homes, fending for ourselves but some people flying in can't be taken to a hotel, fed and taken care of for the benefit of the others to make sure they aren't infectious or sick already?

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SepticSceptic

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#2458532 9-Apr-2020 16:35

kingdragonfly: I went to the Porirua "Pak 'N Save" a couple of days ago. They stopped anyone from bringing in bags. I'd guess it was to get people outside the grocery store ASAP. Naturally there was one angry customer who stormed off.

I picked up a box of gloves, conventionally stocked at the front entrance, and put a pair on (Yes I paid for the box at checkout)

I remember hearing the radio announcer saying they were encouraging people to use contactless card payments.

My grocery bill was over $80, and I had to use the pin pad.

I'd guess licking the bathroom seat would be healthier than using the EFTPOS pin pad, since at least the bathroom seat gets disinfected every so

Use a pen or glasses frame - the bit that goes over your ear.
Then santise

frankv

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#2458537 9-Apr-2020 16:39

mattwnz:

frankv:

Ah, I see. So it's about ensuring that uninfected bubbles stay uninfected, and infected bubbles get "clean" within this month. So a newly-arrived infection, especially (nearly) asymptomatic) now could lead to other (nearly) asymptomatic infections in the bubble, and consequently still be contagious after lockdown, and start to spread again when bubbles coalesce.

The problem is that we only have 14 days left in level 4, unless it is extended. Also can't other people inside the bubble where a person who is self isolating from overseas, still go shopping or work in essential services, where bubbles have the potential to merge? Quarantine prevents that occurring.
IMO this quarantine needed to be put in place before the level 4 lockdown started,otherwise each returning person that goes into self isolation inside an existing bubble has the potential to reset the 4 week clock.

Yeah, I get that. But it's a 2 week clock, not a 4 week clock. So long as we're only looking at a 2-person chain of infection. Hence small bubbles of closely-associated people. Hence the quarantine starting now, 2 weeks from the expected end of lockdown.

The overlapping bubbles via the supermarket has been a problem since day 1. But it appears to not in fact be a problem.

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#2458538 9-Apr-2020 16:40

SepticSceptic:
kingdragonfly: I went to the Porirua "Pak 'N Save" a couple of days ago. They stopped anyone from bringing in bags. I'd guess it was to get people outside the grocery store ASAP. Naturally there was one angry customer who stormed off.

I picked up a box of gloves, conventionally stocked at the front entrance, and put a pair on (Yes I paid for the box at checkout)

I remember hearing the radio announcer saying they were encouraging people to use contactless card payments.

My grocery bill was over $80, and I had to use the pin pad.

I'd guess licking the bathroom seat would be healthier than using the EFTPOS pin pad, since at least the bathroom seat gets disinfected every so

Use a pen or glasses frame - the bit that goes over your ear.
Then santise

I use the edge of the payment card - works fine.

And here in the Wairarapa, the pin pad is wiped down between customers as well.

Batman

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#2458541 9-Apr-2020 16:46

tdgeek:

My post was on context of Batmans concern over enforcing the rules, as doing that is bad. Its what dictators do, apparently. The context was, if we dont enforce anything, allow leaks freely, then the consequence is extended Level 4. I agree with what you say. Some want to eliminate it, others dont seem to, but thats what we need to do. The growing instances of flouting, will probably mean that there will be avoidable periods where some locations go to Level 4.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Dictators spy on their people, dismember their people, shoot their people or jail their people whenever they feel like. From what I read more countries are going that way thanks to covid.

You pointed out that the people are not afraid of our govt. You want the govt to do more. I have got nothing to do with that. I have no influence over the public nor have I any influence over the govt. I am not allowed to put my views on the govt on this thread and so I have not. Don't drag me into it.

You seem to want to influence the people and the govt and that's your business.

kingdragonfly

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#2458542 9-Apr-2020 16:47

Stats NZ: Electronic card transactions: March 2020

By industry, the movements were:

consumables, up $376 million (17 percent)
motor vehicles (excluding fuel), down $38 million (20 percent)
durables, down $57 million (3.9 percent)
apparel, down $98 million (31 percent)
fuel, down $113 million (19 percent)
hospitality, down $338 million (30 percent).

Earbanean

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#2458544 9-Apr-2020 16:49

freitasm:

So you are saying we can spend four weeks inside our homes, fending for ourselves but some people flying in can't be taken to a hotel, fed and taken care of for the benefit of the others to make sure they aren't infectious or sick already?

Why can't we also test them? i.e. put them in quarantine (maybe wait a couple of days?) then do a test. If the test comes back clear, then out they come.

frankv

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#2458546 9-Apr-2020 16:53

dejadeadnz:

frankv:

Therefore, I would like to see your evidence for wanting enforced quarantine. How many people have returned home since the lockdown, AND actually spread the virus outside their bubble? Are you trying to solve a problem that didn't even exist? Who are these experts that wanted the government to put arrivals into enforced quarantine?

You can have a look at the news media for yourself. The likes of Sir David Skegg's POV has been all over the media - it's not my job to make your life easy. An example is here. My argument for wanting a compulsory quarantine is simple: 4.5+ million people have already made extraordinary sacrifices to help stop the spread of the disease. Against the background of people who know much better than you and I calling for a compulsory quarantine as a final step to buttress our generally very good response, I don't see a small minority of people being deprived of their liberty in a limited degree, whilst still being housed, fed, and generally treated with dignity, in order to protect the interest of the majority and to ensure that their sacrifices are not in vain, to be an unwarranted imposition.

In any event, you're crying over spilt milk. The government has lawfully and legitimately made this decision.

Oh, I'm not crying. I think it's a good decision now. But 2 weeks ago it wouldn't have been. David Skeggs was right that it was a risk, but it was a risk that had to be accepted. And, as it turned out, it was the right decision, because apparently those returnees have NOT been breaking isolation and infecting the populace.

But my argument is with your label of "ideological". I don't see it as that at all... rather it was sheer pragmatism. We couldn't deprive people of their liberty because there were too many of them. The only alternative was to turn them away, and leave them to fester (and potentially die of covid-19) in airports around the world.

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frankv

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#2458549 9-Apr-2020 16:57

freitasm:

frankv:

Therefore, I would like to see your evidence for wanting enforced quarantine. How many people have returned home since the lockdown, AND actually spread the virus outside their bubble? Are you trying to solve a problem that didn't even exist? Who are these experts that wanted the government to put arrivals into enforced quarantine?

So you are saying we can spend four weeks inside our homes, fending for ourselves but some people flying in can't be taken to a hotel, fed and taken care of for the benefit of the others to make sure they aren't infectious or sick already?

Sorry, I don't see how that follows from my statements that you quoted?

I have said, elsewhere, that "some people flying in" were in numbers too large to be taken to hotels as you suggest.

freitasm

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#2458560 9-Apr-2020 17:17

Earbanean:

freitasm:

So you are saying we can spend four weeks inside our homes, fending for ourselves but some people flying in can't be taken to a hotel, fed and taken care of for the benefit of the others to make sure they aren't infectious or sick already?

Why can't we also test them? i.e. put them in quarantine (maybe wait a couple of days?) then do a test. If the test comes back clear, then out they come.

Because two days is not enough and it can be up to 14 days before someone shows positive.

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#2458561 9-Apr-2020 17:17

Haven't seen this posted, or missed it, but its rather good

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/120891413/family-lockdown-boogie-music-video-by-kiwi-family-hits-6-million-views

freitasm

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#2458562 9-Apr-2020 17:19

frankv:

Sorry, I don't see how that follows from my statements that you quoted?

I have said, elsewhere, that "some people flying in" were in numbers too large to be taken to hotels as you suggest.

Because the statement I've quoted clearly asks for evidence supporting enforce quarantine and on the subsequent question implying that since we haven't seen evidence of people coming back and spreading the virus, one shouldn't follow the other.

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