Oblivian:

Combined duo again for 1PM .

mattwnz:

L4 worked because it was like a sledgehammer to crack a walnut,
and prior to the lockdown we were doing worse than Oz. That improved under L4 because people were more physically distanced starving the virus of hosts. Some top NZ experts recommended 6-8 weeks on L4 to be safe. That would have gotten active cases down to just a handful and more time to work through big bubbles. We needed the extra week to get tracing up to the 'gold standard' . Potentially level 3 then could be shorter if L4 had been 6-8 weeks and many countrieslike UK are going be in lockdown a lot longer than this just to slow it down with zero chance of eliminating it. The next one to two weeks of case numbers will be telling as to whether relaxing the rules earlier, mixed with a potentially higher infection rate due to more people working , will lead to a rise in new cases. If there are also any undetected community transmissions, they should show up with potentially new random cases in the community popping up. Modeling did show that going into level 3 too early had the potential to rise in some scenarios, dependingon how soon we left L4. But this virus spreads silently , so we are essentially flying blind and a good week behind it. Testing is the only way find out. But L4 have NZ the chance to roll back time at a big cost and I hope that isn't ruined by just a few idiots not doing things properly.

I cant agree it was a sledgehammer cracking a walnut. That either means the L4 was vastly excessive or the virus is an easy fix. Your post tells me the the virus is not easy and L4 was right but not long enough so you are contradicting yourself

L4 has in fact got us to a handful of cases, your words. 5 weeks worked, didnt need 6 to 8. L3 can't be shorter its its higfhly likely to be just 2 weeks. Admittedly Id like L3 to be longer. Possibly can then be a bit freer. UK is a non comparison.

We are flying blind in L3, but we are doing that when we know that cases in the wild are in very very low numbers. We can expect CT to popup, thats ok, we know that, and the resoiurces can hammer that location. 

The issue is many take L3 and the last week of L4 as L2, a free for all. L4 had leaks, cannot avoid that. L3 will have more leaks, thats due to inadvertent and flouting and allowing flouting. Not much will happen for 2 weeks, then we need to see if we are getting 12 to 20 cases a day, and/or CT as people dont fess up how many they have been having beers with, and end up with clusters in various stores instead of just rest homes and weddings

If this is the case its not the MoH or Govt, its all on us, or at least the flouters amongst us,the car filled Macca's buyers and the BK's as per todays example. Thats where the fail will be sourced from. Maybe then the Police will return the orders of wet bus tickets and punish those who are diluting our efforts. Businesses can be shut down if they dont play ball.

frankv:

NumPy:

Aussie has 3 deaths per million, we have 4.

Those numbers are rounded. NZ is actually 3.88 and Aus 3.45 (rounded to 2 decimal places). If NZ had 2 fewer deaths, we would be about the same rate as Aus. That kind of difference gets down to whether someone decided to go ahead with a wedding on 21 March or not, or visited their granny in a rest home. I.e. statistically insignificant.

I am going to get accused of being some guy looking down upon the masses etc but this and the muppetry seen outside that Burger Fuel were highly predictable:

Uber drivers delivering Mecca's treat social distancing as a joke

To trust these highly extractive and exploitative fast food outlets to behave properly, when they predominantly depend on unskilled and terribly paid staff and contractors who frankly won't give a **** when crap hits the fan, is just naive to the extreme. Add this to the mix the kind of typical demographic that patronise such stores -- the relatively uneducated and  "Don't give a toss!" crowd -- you're just setting up a powder keg of disaster. The problem with the likes of large format fast food outlets as well is that their relatively large footholds will end up encouraging people to congregate. This was absolutely predictable. 

Meanwhile, here's the BS response from Burger Fuel about what occurred at Glenfield, Auckland:

 

A BurgerFuel spokeswoman said staff are navigating new procedures such as strict hygiene protocols, physical distancing guidelines and contactless food preparation.

 

"This, combined with major volumes of orders following five weeks of no operation, resulted in some stores struggling to control crowds at peak collection times.

 

"Today we are working hard on a number of improvements to ensure the wellbeing of our customers and staff."

 

This included limiting online orders to ensure food production and queues are manageable, and all stores requiring a crowd controlled at the store front at all times. This will help to reinforce distancing between customers.

In other words, you weren't ready, didn't know what you were doing, and put profits above others' health. Dicks.

Agree. Id venture to suggest they knew what they were doing, they saw the orders, they can extrapolate that to bodies, but hey, check the sales targets we are smashing it. Hindsight, but perhaps The Govt should have drawn a line and said, any abuses or lack of control, Police will instantly lock the doors for a week. Next time its permanently shut for L3 on a store by store basis. 

tdgeek:

mattwnz:

L4 worked because it was like a sledgehammer to crack a walnut,
and prior to the lockdown we were doing worse than Oz. That improved under L4 because people were more physically distanced starving the virus of hosts. Some top NZ experts recommended 6-8 weeks on L4 to be safe. That would have gotten active cases down to just a handful and more time to work through big bubbles. We needed the extra week to get tracing up to the 'gold standard' . Potentially level 3 then could be shorter if L4 had been 6-8 weeks and many countrieslike UK are going be in lockdown a lot longer than this just to slow it down with zero chance of eliminating it. The next one to two weeks of case numbers will be telling as to whether relaxing the rules earlier, mixed with a potentially higher infection rate due to more people working , will lead to a rise in new cases. If there are also any undetected community transmissions, they should show up with potentially new random cases in the community popping up. Modeling did show that going into level 3 too early had the potential to rise in some scenarios, dependingon how soon we left L4. But this virus spreads silently , so we are essentially flying blind and a good week behind it. Testing is the only way find out. But L4 have NZ the chance to roll back time at a big cost and I hope that isn't ruined by just a few idiots not doing things properly.

I cant agree it was a sledgehammer cracking a walnut. That either means the L4 was vastly excessive or the virus is an easy fix. Your post tells me the the virus is not easy and L4 was right but not long enough so you are contradicting yourself

L4 has in fact got us to a handful of cases, your words. 5 weeks worked, didnt need 6 to 8. L3 can't be shorter its its higfhly likely to be just 2 weeks. Admittedly Id like L3 to be longer. Possibly can then be a bit freer. UK is a non comparison.

We are flying blind in L3, but we are doing that when we know that cases in the wild are in very very low numbers. We can expect CT to popup, thats ok, we know that, and the resoiurces can hammer that location. 

The issue is many take L3 and the last week of L4 as L2, a free for all. L4 had leaks, cannot avoid that. L3 will have more leaks, thats due to inadvertent and flouting and allowing flouting. Not much will happen for 2 weeks, then we need to see if we are getting 12 to 20 cases a day, and/or CT as people dont fess up how many they have been having beers with, and end up with clusters in various stores instead of just rest homes and weddings

If this is the case its not the MoH or Govt, its all on us, or at least the flouters amongst us,the car filled Macca's buyers and the BK's as per todays example. Thats where the fail will be sourced from. Maybe then the Police will return the orders of wet bus tickets and punish those who are diluting our efforts. Businesses can be shut down if they dont play ball.

The Sikh community have really stepped up with their charitable efforts , supporting community no matter their religion, or not.

You have had individual Sikh businesses, as well as larger combined efforts organised by temples.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12327677

Thanks to all the charitable groups that have been working 10x harder to support communities. 

There are so many its hard to name them all. 
City Missions , Salvation Army , Student Armies and many unsung heros.

Particularly the ones that face challenging people in very difficult circumstances, something I would find personally difficult . 

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/rotorua-man-heart-gold-helps-house-200-homeless-people-during-covid-19-lockdown

In times where charities are also running low on resources themselves.

tdgeek:

 

Agree. Id venture to suggest they knew what they were doing, they saw the orders, they can extrapolate that to bodies, but hey, check the sales targets we are smashing it. Hindsight, but perhaps The Govt should have drawn a line and said, any abuses or lack of control, Police will instantly lock the doors for a week. Next time its permanently shut for L3 on a store by store basis. 

 

Yeah I tend to agree. People can debate the finer details but I tend to think we were too harsh on online retailing by delivery yet way too loose with hospitality. The risk that hospitality carries is that it attracts the muppets and invite congregation. Right now the world just doesn't need these low value hospitality outlets. Yeah yeah poor them blah blah and they have rents to pay etc. Society has a need to stay alive.

742 complaints about businesses and L3 compliance. Its been less than 48 hours.

Well, just got tested. Have an irritated throat for the last two nights, but no other symptoms (I suspect just cold night, dry house, who knows?) but Healthline asked to test. So booked for 1.20pm at Kenepuru. Drove there at 1.10pm and it was empty - went straight through and back home at 1.30pm. Now the wait begins.

The swab itself is not uncomfortable or bad at all.

It's no use for the PM to just talk about holding people to account. Just as an example, that Burger Fuel outlet (preferably all BF outlets) should be shut down as a punishment. Make them go bankrupt if need be. People need to clear a clear picture that the rules aren't advisories: you don't obey it when it suits you; it's not your lover asking you nicely to calm your puppy down. It's a lawful command. If you don't follow it, you're done for -- don't operate if you can't/won't operate safely.

freitasm:

 

Well, just got tested. Have an irritated throat for the last two nights, but no other symptoms (I suspect just cold night, dry house, who knows?) but Healthline asked to test. So booked for 1.20pm at Kenepuru. Drove there at 1.10pm and it was empty - went straight through and back home at 1.30pm. Now the wait begins.

 

The swab itself is not uncomfortable or bad at all.

 

Good luck. I hope the wait isn't too anxious. When do you get the result?

dejadeadnz:

It's no use for the PM to just talk about holding people to account. Just as an example, that Burger Fuel outlet (preferably all BF outlets) should be shut down as a punishment. Make them go bankrupt if need be. People need to clear a clear picture that the rules aren't advisories: you don't obey it when it suits you; it's not your lover asking you nicely to calm your puppy down. It's a lawful command. If you don't follow it, you're done for -- don't operate if you can't/won't operate safely.

 

freitasm:

Well, just got tested. Have an irritated throat for the last two nights, but no other symptoms (I suspect just cold night, dry house, who knows?) but Healthline asked to test. So booked for 1.20pm at Kenepuru. Drove there at 1.10pm and it was empty - went straight through and back home at 1.30pm. Now the wait begins.

The swab itself is not uncomfortable or bad at all.