2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2478754 7-May-2020 15:57

freitasm:
Fred99:

Some of this seems too complicated to people - or they're simply listening to far too much whining from talkback radio and self-appointed experts in the media offering their opinions as fact. "Look at Sweden" seems to back in vogue - along with statements that they're "letting it go to achieve herd immunity" and otherwise "just carrying on as normal", and "their economy is unscathed". None of that is true - but it just keeps coming up.

I made the mistake of listen to talkback radio on my way to the COVID-19 testing station last week. There are some Trumpers in this country, I tell you that.

The thing about Sweden is that they have had a lot of deaths. But their culture is quite socially distanced during normal times compared to most countries. Italy on the other hand is a very social touchy feely country with lots of social gatherings with an older population, and the virus thrives on that social contact, which is seen as one reason they have had so much virus spread and deaths.
People who are choosing NZ with other countries, tend to cherry pick the stats, and ignore the fact that NZs position is elimination of the virus. This is so we can return to normal domestic life sooner without the need for a vaccine. SARS was eliminated without a vaccine.

mattwnz

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#2478756 7-May-2020 16:00

Dial111: I have a gut feeling level 2 will unofficially start tomorrow night for some people..

Yes that was the problem with releasing details too early. If we do go down to this level 2, people will then have forgotten the rules and it will all need explaining again.

mattwnz

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#2478759 7-May-2020 16:04

tdgeek:
Advice to get a test if you are in Matamata and are concerned. Tells me that the case, while from a known source has been out in the wild. Possibly extensively

I wonder if they may keep some areas like that in level 3. IMO it may make sense. theoretically there shouldn't still be new cases from that cluster still spreading in L4 or L3 as we are getting near the end of the 3rd infection cycle. L2 had the potential to increase the infection rate more for those areas.

mattwnz

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#2478763 7-May-2020 16:13

Looks like our travel bubble with Australia could also include China, Japan and other Asian countries joining the bubble. Didn't think it be long before other countries would be suggested by Australia, because NZ is too small a market for them IMO to provide much help to their tourism sector

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8294509/Australias-proposed-coronavirus-travel-bubble-New-Zealand-expanded.html

Fred99

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#2478764 7-May-2020 16:14

dejadeadnz:

Fred99:

I don't think so. I went into that part of the speech with the impression that this is what L2 "could" look like, that details were to be finalised at the last minute when all information had been reviewed, then finally that a "level 2.5" may be what we'd have for a while.

You could be right about what the PM was intending. As for whether we got away with L3, the pessimist in me thinks there are nightmares to come yet.

They've got a little nightmare now in Melbourne. 60 cases traced back to a meat processing works, 5 days before the management took action after the first case was found, then the action they took was clearly inadequate.

With L2 hyper-vigilance is going to be needed - and some stick needs to go with the carrot.

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#2478786 7-May-2020 16:29

Dial111: I have a gut feeling level 2 will unofficially start tomorrow night for some people..

The same people who object to being addressed by the PM as if they are 3 year olds and "how dare the Government tell us who we can entertain in our own houses".

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dejadeadnz

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#2478788 7-May-2020 16:30

mattwnz: Looks like our travel bubble with Australia could also include China, Japan and other Asian countries joining the bubble. Didn't think it be long before other countries would be suggested by Australia, because NZ is too small a market for them IMO to provide much help to their tourism sector

STUFF. THAT.

x22324567678989

That's just not a meaningful bubble in any sense.

freitasm

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#2478791 7-May-2020 16:35

Press release:

Tourism Minister Kelvin Davis says being able to leave home to reconnect with friends, whānau and loved ones in a safe and conscientious way under Alert Level 2 is terrific news for our tourism industry.

“I know, through the many conversations I’ve been having with those in the industry, how much they have needed to have domestic travel restrictions eased. Their calls have been listened to,” Kelvin Davis said.

“The industry has a lot to look forward to as we start to get our country and economy moving again.

“If ever there was a time to discover what makes our country so unique, it’s now. Once we move into Level 2, I would encourage Kiwis to get out and explore Aotearoa when they can, safely.

“New Zealand has done a great job of limiting the spread of COVID-19 and whether people are travelling to work, or travelling around the country, it’s important to follow the Government’s advice to play it safe and remain vigilant.

“This means we can travel outside our region again, but we must ensure sure we keep building physical distancing and good personal hygiene measures into our daily lives, as these remain our key defences against the virus re-emerging,” Kelvin Davis said.

Tourism New Zealand Chief Executive Stephen England-Hall said the Level 2 announcement is welcome news as tourism will play an important role in New Zealand’s economic recovery.

“The tourism sector has shown incredible resilience over the last few weeks and they will be excited to start opening their doors and welcoming Kiwis back in a safe way,” Stephen England-Hall said.

Kelvin Davis said that under Alert Level 2 domestic travel will recommence, businesses can restart and public venues can reopen.

“But, remember, COVID-19 is still out there and we need to play it safe. While many public venues will be open again at Alert Level 2, there will be restrictions in place around physical distancing and gatherings. Hospitality businesses should also keep customers seated, separated, and with a single server,” Kelvin Davis said.

“Right now, Tourism New Zealand are working on something special to encourage Kiwis to experience what New Zealand has on offer and it will be ready to launch when it’s in the best interest for the industry and the country,” Kelvin Davis said.

Cabinet will make a decision on whether to move to Level 2 on Monday 11 May.

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#2478799 7-May-2020 16:39

DS248: 'Mass masking' should be part of level 2, epidemiologist (Michael Baker) says

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/mass-masking-should-be-part-of-level-2-epidemiologist-says/ar-BB13HVQs

Otago University epidemiologist Professor Michael Baker told Morning Report that New Zealand and Taiwan had taken very similar paths in suppressing the virus.

The only significant difference was over wearing masks.

Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, and many other areas in the region have already a very well developed etiquette, tradition and fashion around mask wearing. In some cases nearly 100 years of it. I expect even with the recent unprecedented demand there was stock in the bank, good supplier relationships, and continuing production.

To give some idea of how deep that goes, this article from 2014 provides a survey.

This is not a bad idea, and not as easy as 123, more so with the complications of present circumstances.

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#2478804 7-May-2020 16:44

empacher48:

I’ve noticed through this that most of what the prime minister has said in the briefings has been incorrect in comparison to what has been written elsewhere, or how other organisations enforce the rules.

For example, under level 3, the COVID website and prime minister said “travel within region is acceptable.”, Civil Defence have interpreted this as “Your Civil Defence region”, which is depending on where you live, not necessarily your Provence. Where as, explained by a police officer to me “ no more than 10 minutes from home.”

So if the message from on top is not correct, who do we believe?

If police officers say "no more than 10 minutes from home", you don't argue with them as it is their interpretation of one of the following terms:

The covid-19.govt.nz web site uses terms such as “stay local”, “drive as short a distance as you can” “close distance to your home”, and “nearest park or beach, not your favourite one”.

The Health Act (COVID-19 Alert Level 3) Order 2020, uses terms such as “readily accessible” and “within the same region”.

However, it would have been helpful if both the covid site and the Health Act Order had used the same terms. This map sets out the boundaries of the various NZ regions.

tdgeek

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#2478807 7-May-2020 16:51

mattwnz:
tdgeek:

Advice to get a test if you are in Matamata and are concerned. Tells me that the case, while from a known source has been out in the wild. Possibly extensively

I wonder if they may keep some areas like that in level 3. IMO it may make sense. theoretically there shouldn't still be new cases from that cluster still spreading in L4 or L3 as we are getting near the end of the 3rd infection cycle. L2 had the potential to increase the infection rate more for those areas.

Yeah. The case isn't CT, its a known source, but who cares if it came from a known source. Is it a second generation Matamata bubble transmission? When did this case get symptoms? Where has he/she been? Ive never heard him give advise to a town based on a cluster transmission. Probably got in in L3, been out and about. Maybe admitted to stretching the rules, who knows.

For the rest of us, its likely there are stuff all who are infectious who are out in the wild now. Ring fencing in L2 is a hard ask.

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dejadeadnz

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#2478811 7-May-2020 16:54

Boy, this COVID-19 is doing weird things to me. First I agreed with Mike Hosking today and now I am agreeing with Winston Peters.

Peters thinks that people should wear masks during indoor gatherings. Link

And he says New Zealand should follow Taiwan's lead in making it a requirement that people wear masks at indoor gatherings.

If people had to wear masks, some of the inevitable social distancing breaches wouldn't be as concerning.

dejadeadnz

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#2478815 7-May-2020 17:03

dejadeadnz:

One thing that the Ministry of Health should be absolutely raked over the coals for is how they had handled the compassionate visit and other exceptional circumstances-based applications for family members to spend time with loved ones at hospitals or to break bubbles for exceptional reasons. The Christiansen judicial review case is embarrassing: basically the MoH had been robo-denying (i.e. without fail rejecting every single compassionate visit applications) applicants. This aspect has been widely reported in the media. Far less well-known was the utter lawlessness with which the MoH behaved towards Mr Christiansen.

Well, the MoH keeps digging. So they did a review of how they were handling some of these exemption applications. And as Justice Walker found in the Christiansen case, the MoH was basically acting like a lawless mob that had no regard to the actual law. Guess what the MoH considered as part of their review?

The review process has found that all of the original decisions were correct on the original criteria, but has found that some decisions should be changed to reflect the updated criteria, which reflect the findings of last week's High Court judgement.

Your original criteria were not lawful and in fact that no relevance to the law whatsoever. As such, it's as worthless as a bit of turd. But you think that someone getting to the "right" decision based on applying a piece of turd is somehow worthy of praise or of any kind of importance? Heavens help us if the imbeciles involved in this review are doing/have done anything else that is semi-important. Source (look at the end of the article)

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#2478817 7-May-2020 17:05

Hoping that someone can link to a handy comparison between Level 2, 3 and 4; from the little bit I have read, it seems that everything is once again open, we can travel around again and places like malls need to introduce similar measures that supermarkets have to limit shoppers. We also need to keep a journal of where we have been, though I doubt many people will do that.

Concerned that mask wearing has been dismissed as a requirement.

I expect to see a lot more people out and about over the weekend who think that Level 2 has already started.

freitasm

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#2478818 7-May-2020 17:09

@nzkiwiman:

Hoping that someone can link to a handy comparison between Level 2, 3 and 4; from the little bit I have read, it seems that everything is once again open, we can travel around again and places like malls need to introduce similar measures that supermarkets have to limit shoppers. We also need to keep a journal of where we have been, though I doubt many people will do that.

Concerned that mask wearing has been dismissed as a requirement.

I expect to see a lot more people out and about over the weekend who think that Level 2 has already started.

I am not sure it answer all your questions but there are two new PDFs at the end of the Alert Level 2 page on COVID website including a "Detailed table of the COVID-19 Alert Level — updated 7 May 2020 [PDF, 1.7 MB]"

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