2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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MikeB4
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#2507337 18-Jun-2020 13:23

sittingduckz:

I can see a web of lies unravelling over the next few weeks. Also all the wellington contacts that we don't know about yet.

And yes, the friend they met who also knowingly broke the rules.

That reminds me of The Honourable Peter Mahon's comment re the Erebus enquiry...."an orchestrated litany of lies"

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

tdgeek

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#2507378 18-Jun-2020 13:24

GV27:

New case, tested positive in isolation, that seems like it's going to happen one way or the other.

I thought it odd we didn't got the odd one. I put it down to low case numbers in OZ, and isolations that have gone on from all incoming travellers from whatever country

dejadeadnz

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#2507379 18-Jun-2020 13:27

concordnz:

Unfortunately Lawyers won't let those type of consequences happen. - lawyers are part of the problem
(They are already ganging up on the Govt - trying to condemn them(and tie their hands going forward) for what was a highly successful Level 4)

NZ operates by a system of parliamentary sovereignty and Parliament can legislate for any lockdown rule it pleases. So far, none of the legally unmeritorious court cases have succeeded -- the Christiansen case showed the MoH ignoring the primary legislation, its own rules, and behaving like an utterly lawless mob.

You seem to have some stupid obsession with lawyers -- this thread is for informed debates based on facts. If you want to delve into conspiracy theories, please start your own on a forum dedicated to conspiracies.

[Mod edit (MF): removed direct personal attacks]

surfisup1000

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#2507420 18-Jun-2020 13:30

Lying government.

I had images of people being tested as part of immigration procedure. Instead, many people out in the wild with no testing at all.

In the wild includes quarantined people mingling with the public.

This is possibly going to ruin all of my July plans.

I see level 3 is a real possibility, and level 4 if we get community transmission.

Because this government are liars.

xlinknz

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#2507421 18-Jun-2020 13:31

Dingbatt:

xlinknz:

A very good interview this morning on Radio NZ here with Sir David Skegg (he starts at approx 19:00)

key points from my perspective were

AIR NZ staff can flight domestically after 48 hrs of being crew on Intl flights and staying in hotels in Covid-19 hot spots such as USA where they cannot easily self isolate. This is a significant risk.
I have spoken to several friends that have conducted return flights to LA and to Shanghai from NZ. They do self isolate in both those locations and meet very strict protocols while there.

In LA they largely remain in their rooms and if they do need to go out they must wear a mask and gloves. They are not allowed to ‘exercise’ like people isolating in NZ.
In Shanghai in particular the people they are in contact with are in full hazmat suits and they are not allowed out of their rooms. The hotel reeks of disinfectant through being sprayed multiple times a day.

I can understand their anger at ill-informed comments because their livelihoods have already been severely impacted by this and they do everything they can to not make it worse.

@Dingbatt

The AIR NZ protocols relies on a high level of trust, trust that all AIR NZ staff on Intl flights follow strict the protocols which I am sure most do, but already there is as yet unconfirmed reports of some AIR NZ staff not strictly following the protocols. These current protocols also do not guarantee not getting infected

@Dingbatt update 1.52pm. Seems things are changing very fast - Air NZ staff on long haul now have to self-isolate on return and get a negative test result before they are able to return back into the community. I assume this means Air NZ will require a lot more air crew?

ezbee

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#2507422 18-Jun-2020 13:32

tdgeek:

GV27:

New case, tested positive in isolation, that seems like it's going to happen one way or the other.

I thought it odd we didn't got the odd one. I put it down to low case numbers in OZ, and isolations that have gone on

Fair points.

This will be happening as the 1000's of people ( or is it 10's 1000's ) yet to repatriate come through inevitable.
Which is why the management of isolation and quarantine needs to be on point.

So just needs to be something we have great systems to manage as routine.
Its not like there is a shortage of people that can be employed if good old fashioned people power is needed to cover things.

Hopefully they are also more tightly managing all the contacts on the flights of this person as normal part of procedure.

Pity the tracing app was so emasculated that its use is limited for the potential case if something slips our procedures.

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dejadeadnz

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#2507423 18-Jun-2020 13:34

The MoH has really lost all credibility. It's now just an orchestrated spin machine -- one that produces nauseatingly bad PR releases.

Oblivian

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#2507424 18-Jun-2020 13:34

Dr Bloomfield has gone from most loved man in NZ. To most grilled by media.

They are straight up asking him why these errors have happened with him not knowing given it's 'his' team.

Quite the 180

tdgeek

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#2507436 18-Jun-2020 13:43

Dingbatt:

tdgeek:

in will stop that, as will employing a huge number of babysitters aka Police, Military. It has to be forced IF you want 100% compliance.

There weren’t enough police to do their normal job before all this. Where do you expect to magic them up from for this expanded role?

It would appear that things are being done to a budget instead of viewing it as an insurance policy against even greater (economic) carnage. The number of virus testing stations has been cut back when now is as important as ever to have extra vigilance and random checking.

A great ‘shovel ready project’ would be a proper isolation facility.

That is part of my point. It is clear from the media and here and probbaly everywhere, that the minimum expectation is that the border is 100% watertight. If we want that then we need a huge number of Police/Military babysitters, to cater for the many of us that cannot be trusted to follow simple rules

So, we either do the best we can with the numbers of support staff we have, accept there will be flouters, we can't control everybody

Or, we use force (locks) and huge numbers of people to manage all people in quarantine, to ensure 100% compliance

tdgeek

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#2507437 18-Jun-2020 13:46

I assumed that the facilities are managed by MoH. They arent involved, it seems that is Mike Bush's area? From what was said on the video, MoH has no control over that, there are expectations from Govt and MoH, but its Mike Bush leading it from what I gather? Police. military, private sector security etc Now the Military will take that over

JaseNZ

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#2507441 18-Jun-2020 13:50

This is laughable if it was not so serious. (if it proves to be correct)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300037580/homeless-man-bluffed-his-way-into-5star-isolation-hotel-claims-michael-woodhouse

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dejadeadnz

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#2507442 18-Jun-2020 13:50

This attitude that it's either a free for all or needing to put in gazillion resources to manage the travelers is both reductive and stupid. Here's what Robert Fisher QC (a retired HC judge) wrote in an op-ed in the Herald (it's pay walled). Here's an important excerpt:

Every important policy or system designed to influence human behaviour must include fail-safe mechanisms that assume the inevitability of human error. They seek to anticipate such errors by putting in place a second line of defence. Thus workers are instructed never to put their hand near a circular saw - but the saw must also have a guard and automatic shutoff, just in case.

So it is with Covid border control. The great majority of travellers will abide by requests to self-isolate but some will not. That is why all have to be closely controlled whether they like it or not. No one should be given compassionate leave without continuous and stringent supervision.

This is the kind of thing that the most junior risk advisor in any reputable corporate can grasp, even at graduate level. The fact that the stupid amateurs at MoH hadn't designed any such secondary controls or managed to implement any is beyond extraordinary. Bloomfield should be summarily fired.

tdgeek

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#2507444 18-Jun-2020 13:52

Oblivian:

Dr Bloomfield has gone from most loved man in NZ. To most grilled by media.

They are straight up asking him why these errors have happened with him not knowing given it's 'his' team.

Quite the 180

Thats why I was surprised when I heard who runs the facilitiies, its not MoH. Mike Bush seems to be leading that, and that now does ring a faint bell from a while back. I thought then that hey the Police will be taking care of the border/facilties, that's a great idea. But it hasnt worked out. Are thay not ensuring all processes /tests take place? What about mingling?

ezbee

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#2507451 18-Jun-2020 14:06

Yes surfisup1000 there is a lot at stake.

That China is looking at imported products for its cause of recent outbreak should be chilling warning.
No matter if this is a bit of a distraction, given people are really key vector, ( oh look its Europes fault ).

Our food exports are key part of what is paying the bills and keeping us going at the moment.
Hell agricultural protectionism for our other markets does not need much encouragement.

So our clean bill of health and being able to demonstrate great procedures is worth big $ to us.

The great bubbles also need us to demonstrate a gold standard for other countries to agree, but also for us to be assured we maintain same.
To have a bubble collapse due to management chaos would be worse than none at all.

The idea of sending 10's K students to Queenstown to isolate for 2 weeks really ?
If we can't manage our own returnees how can we manage this infux from potentially covid rich environments.
Students anyone remember what you got up to as a student on camp , at university etc.

True trust is ok when its not critical everything else needs to assume human factors of some peoples lack of general awareness, lack of responsibility , lying , spinning, self indulgence, ignorance and willfulness .

Like said with machine and saw guards , and such.
Shiver.... I once operated an old fashioned printing press , a true museum piece.
No protection or guard, thankfully I was scared enough to be very cautious when setting it up, but there would have been no mercy for a mistake.

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#2507452 18-Jun-2020 14:09

On other news, who didn't see this coming?

"Texas Coronavirus [New] Cases Double in a Day, Mayors Ask to Enforce Face Masks"

As novel coronavirus cases in Texas climb to at least 93,569, with a record number of new cases reported Tuesday, the mayors of nine cities in the state have urged mandatory face coverings in public to help curb the spread of infection.

On Tuesday, Texas recorded its highest daily case count since the outbreak began, with around 3,400 new cases. That's double the 1,700 new infections reported Monday, according to the latest figures from Johns Hopkins University.

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