2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2507479 18-Jun-2020 14:44

freitasm:
People lie. Everyone lies. These two lied.

Anyone in isolation at a hotel complaining it's like a prison is an idiot.

If you wanted back, you knew the rules. It's to make five million people safe.

If not abiding by the rules, you are an idiot. If you are complaining about the rules you are an idiot.

And if you are an idiot and with symptoms and still go out and meet people and lie, then you are more than an idiot.

Freitasm - Perhaps you need to start to re-advertise the yellow stripe Covid 'Don't be an Idiot' you used to have at the bottom footer here.
(I'm pretty sure it was here I remember seeing it)

If we are lucky the media might spot it and start using it.

sittingduckz

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#2507486 18-Jun-2020 15:12

concordnz:
freitasm:

People lie. Everyone lies. These two lied.

Anyone in isolation at a hotel complaining it's like a prison is an idiot.

If you wanted back, you knew the rules. It's to make five million people safe.

If not abiding by the rules, you are an idiot. If you are complaining about the rules you are an idiot.

And if you are an idiot and with symptoms and still go out and meet people and lie, then you are more than an idiot.

Freitasm - Perhaps you need to start to re-advertise the yellow stripe Covid 'Don't be an Idiot' you used to have at the bottom footer here.
(I'm pretty sure it was here I remember seeing it)

If we are lucky the media might spot it and start using it.

Or a Wheaton's Covid Advice (Based on Wheaton's Law)

I'm not a complete idiot, I still have some parts missing.

1101

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#2507487 18-Jun-2020 15:12

tdgeek:

That is part of my point. It is clear from the media and here and probbaly everywhere, that the minimum expectation is that the border is 100% watertight. If we want that then we need a huge number of Police/Military babysitters, to cater for the many of us that cannot be trusted to follow simple rules

Actually we dont need huge number of Police etc.
Put them in hotels . The hotels will be mostly otherwise empty (I assume)
Put them all on one or more floors .One security guard at the stairwell , lockout the lift from floors they are all on. One security guard monitoring hotel security cams
Not allowed to leave their rooms .

In China , on entry you are put into a hotel and not allowed to leave the room. You also have to pay for that room. Dont need to look hard to find a way to do this properly .

1101

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#2507507 18-Jun-2020 15:22

The plot thickens

A National MP was lobbying for the early release of these 2 woman .
So , a bit of political pressure surely added to this debacle Im sure .

tdgeek

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#2507510 18-Jun-2020 15:32

1101:

tdgeek:

That is part of my point. It is clear from the media and here and probbaly everywhere, that the minimum expectation is that the border is 100% watertight. If we want that then we need a huge number of Police/Military babysitters, to cater for the many of us that cannot be trusted to follow simple rules

Actually we dont need huge number of Police etc.
Put them in hotels . The hotels will be mostly otherwise empty (I assume)
Put them all on one or more floors .One security guard at the stairwell , lockout the lift from floors they are all on. One security guard monitoring hotel security cams
Not allowed to leave their rooms .

In China , on entry you are put into a hotel and not allowed to leave the room. You also have to pay for that room. Dont need to look hard to find a way to do this properly .

They are in hotels are they not? Say 300 in one hotel, how can you stop them mingling? Thye can be locked in 24/7 that would work and be efficient. So we solve the virus issue but get hammnered by human rights issues. Like the saying goes here is A, B and C, choose two

wellygary

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#2507551 18-Jun-2020 15:40

1101:

The plot thickens

A National MP was lobbying for the early release of these 2 woman .
So , a bit of political pressure surely added to this debacle Im sure .

Bishop is the local MP for Hutt, so its likely he wrote a letter in support after being asked.... Local MPs do this all the time to support all sorts of things... Heck, being nominated by your local MP is the only way to become a JP..

While it hurts National's politicking on the matter,

it actually opens up more questions of the Ministry of Health, about whether they take lobbying by MPs into consideration when making compassionate release decisions...

It also opens the issue of the Ministry of Health appearing to give info to the minister's office for political purposes....

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concordnz

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#2507552 18-Jun-2020 15:45

tdgeek:

They are in hotels are they not? Say 300 in one hotel, how can you stop them mingling? Thye can be locked in 24/7 that would work and be efficient. So we solve the virus issue but get hammnered by human rights issues. Like the saying goes here is A, B and C, choose two

I believe there is reasonably common (westen) example.
While it is a somewhat ironic example.

Cruise Ships do it all the time to limit/control Novovirus gastric outbreaks.

(Guests are confined to their rooms [& those are a darned sight smaller than Motel rooms] & meals are delivered to their door. & they are not allowed to leave.

(Sometimes guards a posted if they cannot be trusted to stay in.)

This happens all the time & nobody complains.

JaseNZ

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#2507553 18-Jun-2020 15:49

its prettys much been a complete FUBAR , Better sort it out and get it right pretty damn quick. Defence being bought in is good will (should) put some discipline in place.

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tdgeek

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#2507554 18-Jun-2020 15:55

JaseNZ:

its prettys much been a complete FUBAR , Better sort it out and get it right pretty damn quick. Defence being bought in is good will (should) put some discipline in place.

Agree. While the release of the two women has been taken as MoH's responsibility, there is a LOT of chatter here about all the mingling at these hotels. From what I heard today, Mike Bush and the Police are in charge of all managed isolation. So aren't they accountable for the mish mash of mingling issues that appear to be daily news? I watched an interview he did, when asked about who's fault was the two women, he said that Ash had accepted that, but he skirted around everything else . If we want accountability, is it fair to blame MoH for the continual mingling issues and the risk that goes with that at these hotels?

tdgeek

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#2507556 18-Jun-2020 16:02

wellygary:

Bishop is the local MP for Hutt, so its likely he wrote a letter in support after being asked.... Local MPs do this all the time to support all sorts of things... Heck, being nominated by your local MP is the only way to become a JP..

While it hurts National's politicking on the matter,

it actually opens up more questions of the Ministry of Health, about whether they take lobbying by MPs into consideration when making compassionate release decisions...

I think this shows that everyone has skin in the game and these "skins" overlap. Many MP's cried foul that the lockdowns were too much went for too long, plus we want the travel bubble opened. Yet they are also complaining now about the border not being watertight, where if they had their own way, L4, L3, and L2 would have been very brief, and tourists would be bubbling there way here as we speak. IMHO, election year hasn't helped.

I think it would be helpful if the public were given a clear guide on who manages what. The feeling is IMO is that MoH owns the lot, but the farce of managed isolation isn't owned by them it appears.

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#2507558 18-Jun-2020 16:06

JaseNZ:

its prettys much been a complete FUBAR , Better sort it out and get it right pretty damn quick. Defence being bought in is good will (should) put some discipline in place.

Let me get this straight -

The MOH runs testing - and whatever they did, didn't find any cases (?didn't test people in quarantine)

The Police runs the quarantine - and whatever they did, people were not actually in quarantine and mingling was widespread, random people could check into isolation

The MPs run the compassionate exemptions - MP's letter hold weight of getting more compassion

Now we get the Army to take over which bit?

I don't know if anybody knows what's going on up there ... who runs the show?

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GV27

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#2507559 18-Jun-2020 16:08

I'm extremely done with this:

1 NEWS can reveal guests who stayed at the same hotel as the two positive Covid-19 cases from the UK were flown to Christchurch part-way through their isolation without being tested.

Guests from the South Island staying at the Ellerslie Novotel received a letter from quarantine officials on June 13 inviting them on a flight down to Christchurch to a new isolation facility so they could be "closer to home".

One man 1 NEWS had spoken to arrived at the Ellerslie hotel on June 9 and had been identified as a contact of the women who tested positive. He was in the same facility as the women for five days, but said he wasn't tested before the flight and had to ask to be tested on his eighth day of isolation.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/man-identified-contact-women-uk-covid-19-flown-christchurch-during-isolation-without-being-tested

If we end up with a second CT outbreak then you'd have to wonder at what point does MOH become culpable through negligence.

pinkydot

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Master Geek
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#2507560 18-Jun-2020 16:09

The only way to have no more active cases and have zero cases forever is to ban all incoming flights, not allow any citizen coming back into the country at all unless there vaccine available. Will be the cheapest & most harsh way without spending more on taxpayer money on all those isolation accommodation/foods for quarantines. Pretty sure PM won't allow that happen.

When NZ active cases back up to 100+, a lot of voters might changed their minds & vote differently. With election just around the corner, PM must be getting nervous now, have to deal with the economy and covid. They can't make any mistake or else may need minority party to govern again. Since they are riding high in those research polling and able to govern alone. If PM really want to win, should just brought forward the election and win now, before start letting citizen back into the country, so any active cases that let in and economy collapse they still have 3 more years govern. All politicians in any parties have their own interest to secure their jobs no matter what tactics they have to use to win the election. Most politicians going to use this covid & economy to try to win the election now.

Economy wise, won't be mad if lose my job to covid because that's the reality now. Boss hinting that might close NZ head office and willing to use his own money to give everyone extra 3 months pay if decide to close down. He stuck in Asia right now and has no intention coming back to NZ right now because of the 14 days quarantine rules. He pretty much put all his resources focus in his Asia business. The country he in has strict lockdown, there still have cases everyday and still have hundreds active cases but the Asia head office business is far more stable compare to NZ business.

freitasm

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#2507561 18-Jun-2020 16:15

GV27:

Guests from the South Island staying at the Ellerslie Novotel received a letter from quarantine officials on June 13 inviting them on a flight down to Christchurch to a new isolation facility so they could be "closer to home".

"Closer to home"?

Seriously? What part of "minimum exposure" don't these people understand now?

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Geektastic

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#2507597 18-Jun-2020 16:51

I am busy editing my dictionary to include the new definition of "perfectionist".

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