2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

Forums › Health and fitness › 2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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8315 posts

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#2518114 6-Jul-2020 17:12

Its Starting to get ugly out there,

If WA get a cap on arrivals Queensland will also want one, and with MEL closed to International travel, it will see Australia rationing arrivals....

Now at the request of the NSW Government, new Federal Government limits will be introduced from midnight Saturday night.

NSW Health said overseas arrivals will be capped at 450 passengers a day, with a maximum of 50 passengers allowed per incoming flight.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-04/nsw-coronavirus-cap-on-arrivals-to-ease-quarantine-pressure/12422504

WA want something similar,

"That's why the State Government has now formally requested the Federal Government to put a cap on international arrivals into Perth Airport consistent with the Federal Government's support for the New South Wales cap.

"I've asked the Prime Minister to agree on a cap for Western Australia - something in the vicinity of one flight per three days. We need to slow the flow of arrivals into Western Australia. This will help us manage the arrivals and quarantine arrangements to the highest possible standard.

"In addition, cabinet today approved the drafting of urgent legislation that will force any returning traveller, West Australian or not, to pay for their 14 days of hotel quarantine."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-06/coronavirus-australia-live-news-covid19-latest-melbourne/12424360

DS248

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#2518123 6-Jul-2020 17:30

wellygary:

Its Starting to get ugly out there,

If WA get a cap on arrivals Queensland will also want one, and with MEL closed to International travel, it will see Australia rationing arrivals....

...

I read an article a day or two ago indicating a significant drop off in international arrivals into Brisbane since QLD introduced charging for managed isolation / quarantine from 1 July.

If I recall correctly, the NSW cap was partly because people were now avoiding Melbourne and Brisbane, leading to an increase in traffic through Sydney? So maybe QLD do not need a cap at this point as the quarantine charges are doing the job for them.

DS248

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#2518128 6-Jul-2020 17:46

The difficulty in fully locking down the Victoria-NSW border is apparent from this article. Not just roads & bridges - also dirt tracks through bush and 1000+km of border river to patrol.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/all-bases-covered-24-hour-surveillance-on-victoria-nsw-border-as-military-called-in-c-1147576

mattwnz

20147 posts

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#2518142 6-Jul-2020 18:29

DS248:

I read an article a day or two ago indicating a significant drop off in international arrivals into Brisbane since QLD introduced charging for managed isolation / quarantine from 1 July.

If I recall correctly, the NSW cap was partly because people were now avoiding Melbourne and Brisbane, leading to an increase in traffic through Sydney? So maybe QLD do not need a cap at this point as the quarantine charges are doing the job for them.

I am wondering how QLD in Australia can begin charging now, but in NZ it seems that we can't, because NZers have the right to return. Charging seems to be seen as an obstacle that would prevent them returning. The deputy PM was on TV a few weeks ago saying that it could be done using a loan scheme. I think to be fair, it should be done on a case by case basis. IMO Someone travelling to the UK or Europe during the pandemic for work reasons or a holiday, and then who returns, should pay for their hotel stay in isolation.

mattwnz

20147 posts

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#2518143 6-Jul-2020 18:32

DS248:

The difficulty in fully locking down the Victoria-NSW border is apparent from this article. Not just roads & bridges - also dirt tracks through bush and 1000+km of border river to patrol.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/all-bases-covered-24-hour-surveillance-on-victoria-nsw-border-as-military-called-in-c-1147576

I honestly can't see how they can really stop people going across the border who really want to, unless they erect walls. The only state I can see that could remain Covid free is Tasmania, as like NZ, it is surrounded by water. Someone could travel by boat, but not as easy.

mattwnz

20147 posts

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#2518158 6-Jul-2020 18:38

Fred99:

Batman:

covid may have started outside china 😮

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12345688

Yep. Some data from France where they had patients admitted with atypical pneumonia at the same time as the first cases seen (and retrospectively diagnosed) in Wuhan, tested positive for C-19 antibodies when they tested them a couple of months ago.

I am not sure how plausible it is that it is a virus that laid dormant, until environmental conditions were right. If that is the case then why aren't we getting unexplained cases in the community in NZ? Or other cases in China that couldn't be tracked back to Wuhan. I thought China had traced it back to the Wuhan wet market from a single carrier, and it could have got over to France in December from people traveling to and from China in Decemeber, and it did have an epicentre in China. My problem is that wet markets are still occurring around the world, so have we learnt anything? I don't think there is much doubt that it is international travel that has spread this virus throughout the world which has led to the disaster.

xlinknz

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#2518169 6-Jul-2020 18:57

I'd be surprised in the Spanish reported claim of Covid-19 in Mar 2019 becomes fact

That said I have little doubt the virus was in Europe before when China reported to the WHO 31st Dec 2019. France, Italy and Spain from memory have all claimed they have seen the virus in waste water in Dec but that comes as no surprise to me that infected people from Wuhan were in Europe before 31st Dec

time will tell

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Batman

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#2518173 6-Jul-2020 19:00

DS248:

The difficulty in fully locking down the Victoria-NSW border is apparent from this article. Not just roads & bridges - also dirt tracks through bush and 1000+km of border river to patrol.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/all-bases-covered-24-hour-surveillance-on-victoria-nsw-border-as-military-called-in-c-1147576

i think by the time they do the Paris Dakar through the Australian desert the covid virus would be long gone or the hiker long dead

tdgeek

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#2518175 6-Jul-2020 19:10

mattwnz:

I am not sure how plausible it is that it is a virus that laid dormant, until environmental conditions were right. If that is the case then why aren't we getting unexplained cases in the community in NZ? Or other cases in China that couldn't be tracked back to Wuhan. I thought China had traced it back to the Wuhan wet market from a single carrier, and it could have got over to France in December from people traveling to and from China in Decemeber, and it did have an epicentre in China. My problem is that wet markets are still occurring around the world, so have we learnt anything? I don't think there is much doubt that it is international travel that has spread this virus throughout the world which has led to the disaster.

Given that local scientists have found this in their own country, its very plausible.

Oblivian

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#2518182 6-Jul-2020 19:23

That's one way to get rid of the overloading issues and importation worries.

Stop flying/cancel routes and forget to tell everyone

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12345955

On Saturday, at least three services were scheduled between the two cities, but now there appeared to be none, he said.

Makes decision easier with the cancelling Melbourne, QLD costs and now NSW kickbacks

kingdragonfly

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#2518186 6-Jul-2020 19:44

From the US.
ఠ_ఠ

A “Herd Immunity” Rock Festival Is Happening in July

In defiance of health experts, the rock festival goes down in Wisconsin this summer

So much for no tours or festivals until 2021! The three-day “Herd Immunity Fest” has just been announced, taking place July 16th-18th, 2020 (yes that’s right, 2020) in Wisconsin...

The “mini-fest” will only feature a total of 15 bands spread out over the three days, and will take place on an outdoor stage at the Q&Z Expo Center. If it goes off as planned, it would likely be the first rock festival featuring national touring acts to take place since the pandemic started.

A posting from the festival’s promoter on the Q&Z Expo Center Facebook page reads, “When the lock down first happened my first thought was OK we can all do 2 weeks, then it went on and on, things were getting cancelled, I started to worry about people not only for this Covid but mental, physical, financial. As humans we NEED other human contact.”
...

frankv

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#2518201 6-Jul-2020 20:35

mattwnz:
I am not sure how plausible it is that it is a virus that laid dormant, until environmental conditions were right.

I agree. You can't surely argue that conditions in France 2020 are much more conducive to covid-19 than 6 months or a year ago. And if they were equally conducive, why didn't the disease explode throughout France 6 months or a year ago?

My understandins is that they are analyzing sewage for fragments of RNA that are present in the covid-19 virus. We know that there are similar viruses in our environment, and they will have similar RNA. So the sewage will have pieces of those viruses, not to mention RNA & DNA from the food and people, and a whole lot of other proteins. Even if you find in this soup fragments that match every single section of the covid-19 RNA, that doesn't prove that the virus was actually present. Just that it *could* be present. I doubt that any part of the covid-19 RNA is *known* to be specific just to it.

Have they found covid-19 antibodies in blood samples taken prior to (say) November 2019? That seems to me to be a much easier thing to detect.

frankv

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#2518205 6-Jul-2020 20:46

xlinknz: France, Italy and Spain from memory have all claimed they have seen the virus in waste water in Dec but that comes as no surprise to me that infected people from Wuhan were in Europe before 31st Dec

They haven't seen the virus. Only evidence of the virus. Something that looks like it might have been part of the virus. In large quantities. Whatever "large" means in terms of viruses in waste water.

It's the difference between seeing a Yeti and Yeti footprints.

Batman

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#2518208 6-Jul-2020 21:03

mattwnz:

I am not sure how plausible it is that it is a virus that laid dormant, until environmental conditions were right. If that is the case then why aren't we getting unexplained cases in the community in NZ? Or other cases in China that couldn't be tracked back to Wuhan. I thought China had traced it back to the Wuhan wet market from a single carrier, and it could have got over to France in December from people traveling to and from China in Decemeber, and it did have an epicentre in China. My problem is that wet markets are still occurring around the world, so have we learnt anything? I don't think there is much doubt that it is international travel that has spread this virus throughout the world which has led to the disaster.

If it is true, then the virus (like every other virus) was spreading for a while prior to 2020 but wasn't as deadly, ie only killed one or two here and there. Then something happened in December 2019 in Wuhan - ?mutation?- ?wet market providing optimal conditions?

DS248

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#2518214 6-Jul-2020 21:23

Batman:

DS248:

The difficulty in fully locking down the Victoria-NSW border is apparent from this article. Not just roads & bridges - also dirt tracks through bush and 1000+km of border river to patrol.

https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/all-bases-covered-24-hour-surveillance-on-victoria-nsw-border-as-military-called-in-c-1147576

i think by the time they do the Paris Dakar through the Australian desert the covid virus would be long gone or the hiker long dead

Sure, for WA, and even SA and NT. WA probably being the safest of all from that point of view. Just 6 roads in and only two of them sealed. And beyond that a ~1000 km covid-free desert barrier in the form of NT & SA (assuming you get past their road blocks). And some pretty baron territory to the east of them.

But NSW-Vic border ... not quite so problematic.

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