2019 Novel Coronavirus Covid-19 Discussion

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#2529645 27-Jul-2020 15:56

GV27:

Worst case scenario, the legislation wasn't fit for purpose and the initial orders and breaches of it are no longer valid. This is the bit I'm actually interested in, not the blame game. What does it mean in practice if we can't actually do the thing we already did, and so on.

Exactly and I hope this legal review determines where the law or laws need to be written and/or rewritten (strengthen/clarified) and that even if this has to occur prior or post elections that there is cross party benches support, after all this is for the good of our 5 million team.

Whilst the difficult we can do immediately, the impossible takes a bit longer. However, miracles you will have to wait for.

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#2529667 27-Jul-2020 16:12

mattwnz:

Those numbers are appallingly low.The health minister said weeks ago that he wanted the numbers up to 4000. What is the excuse for not getting the numbers up there? Surely they can find enough people presenting to doctors with symptoms?

Based on flu tracking the number of symptomatic people in NZ is definitely down: https://info.flutracking.net/reports-2/new-zealand-reports/

(Click the top date)

1101

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#2529670 27-Jul-2020 16:21

GV27:

Like I saw, 'the ends justify the means' is not a great platform for legal decision making!

Actually, it very much is , in issues of public health.
Its putting the rights of the many above the rights of the very few , and if that has to be rapidly forced through into law ,without ongoing debate & consultation, then so be it .

Any issues with these rushed through laws can be sorted at a later date .
Any too extreme draconian over the top laws wouldnt last long in NZ's system , so thats a good safety net for the rights of the many .

The very few who dont want to comply, Im sorry but you should loose your rights .

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#2529672 27-Jul-2020 16:23

freitasm:

All of you making the case of "ILLEGAL!!!!!" are forgetting one thing: who in your family would you like to volunteer to die of COVID-19?

Everyone complaining of government overreach in a situation where it was trying to make good for the people make it look like the government was actually acting in an authoritarian state to remove people's rights forever.

Get a grip. Don't like it here, go to Trump's America where real federal stormtroopers are going around rounding up citizens for just asking for the police to stop killing black people.

The government should never break the law - they have the power to make the law. If the law does not cover what it needs to then it must be changed.

If they are in a situation which requires temporary over reach due to exceptional circumstances that is different and can be dealt with legislatively. Once again they have the ability to do this as parliaments legislative power is almost absolute. There is very little in the way of constitutional governance over parliament in the same way as in the US.

It is absolutely inexcusable for the government to act illegally for an extended period of time. That is exactly what Trump normalises and should never be accepted.

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#2529699 27-Jul-2020 16:43

Seems the Government did have the power through parliament if needed.
Has me wondering if the issues of coalition caused a problem. Its been a bit fractured recently.
( Australia had no problem with rental protection, but we could not get a much weaker measure over the bar. )

Rather than call for help from National, they looked harder at getting a legal opinion existing powers were enough to avoid perhaps ?
The courts will thrash this out in the next few days and we shall see.
We have come a long way from days of Muldoon, that's for sure.

Pandemics and Politics , hard to separate.

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#2529701 27-Jul-2020 16:47

Handle9:

It is absolutely inexcusable for the government to act illegally for an extended period of time.

It's before the high court and is being defended - so suggesting that they've acted illegally for an extended period of time hasn't been determined.

Presumably nobody (except perhaps a few nutters - including a couple of politicians) would want a result that allowed people to deliberately do dumb harmful things against the public interest in the midst of a pandemic.

Comparing what happened here to Trumpism is pretty stupid.

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GV27

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#2529705 27-Jul-2020 16:52

1101:

Actually, it very much is , in issues of public health.
Its putting the rights of the many above the rights of the very few , and if that has to be rapidly forced through into law ,without ongoing debate & consultation, then so be it .

Any issues with these rushed through laws can be sorted at a later date .
Any too extreme draconian over the top laws wouldnt last long in NZ's system , so thats a good safety net for the rights of the many .

The very few who dont want to comply, Im sorry but you should loose your rights .

That isn't what is being discussed here.

freitasm

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#2529726 27-Jul-2020 17:19

"Vietnam alarm after first cases in months"

The new cases are all linked to Da Nang, a central coastal city popular with domestic tourists.

The first case - patient 416 - was a 57-year-old man who sought medical care on 20 July for flu symptoms and was diagnosed with Covid-19. He is now on a ventilator and according to doctors quoted in local media, in a critical condition.

Officials say they do not yet know where he contracted the virus and that he had not recently left the city.

Contact tracing identified more than 100 people who had interacted with the man, but all returned negative tests.

However over the weekend, three more cases were confirmed.

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#2529728 27-Jul-2020 17:20

Fred99:
Handle9:

It is absolutely inexcusable for the government to act illegally for an extended period of time.

It's before the high court and is being defended - so suggesting that they've acted illegally for an extended period of time hasn't been determined.

Presumably nobody (except perhaps a few nutters - including a couple of politicians) would want a result that allowed people to deliberately do dumb harmful things against the public interest in the midst of a pandemic.

Comparing what happened here to Trumpism is pretty stupid.

Presumably nobody (except perhaps a few nutters - including a couple of politicians) would want a result that allowed people to be illegally arrested or detained in New Zealand.

As I wrote above it's different to temporarily over reach in the interests of public safety. The government has the power to change the law and, if required, should do so. To do otherwise is to be actually be a police state as opposed to what the conspiracy lunatics like to suggest.

It's an important test of law.

debo

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#2529737 27-Jul-2020 17:40

Batman:
Fred99:

532 more cases and 6 more deaths in Victoria.

Looks like they're losing the battle - and are going to pay the human and financial cost for not locking down to ~ level 4 for a few weeks.

I'm not sure that would have helped.

Correct me if wrong but someone told me all their thousands of new cases are linked back to 2 people in quarantine.

Level 4 would not change that.

Also if that can happen with just 2 slips, we are also at risk as we also have quarantine.

I assume Fred99 is talking about not going into level 4 lock down after that f*cking security guard let the virus out of quarantine. They were in a similar situation to what we are in now. Isolated cases and a level 1 lock down.

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#2529748 27-Jul-2020 17:58

Floridians sue over mask mandate as COVID-19 cases surge

CBS Evening News

For the fifth straight day, more than a thousand people died in the U.S. due to the coronavirus pandemic. And there seems to be no end in sight. Lilia Luciano reports.

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#2529749 27-Jul-2020 18:03

Handle9:

Presumably nobody (except perhaps a few nutters - including a couple of politicians) would want a result that allowed people to be illegally arrested or detained in New Zealand.

As I wrote above it's different to temporarily over reach in the interests of public safety. The government has the power to change the law and, if required, should do so. To do otherwise is to be actually be a police state as opposed to what the conspiracy lunatics like to suggest.

It's an important test of law.

I don't really understand the problem here. I understand what is being said, but I don't follow the logic. Wherever else I have lived, public health always takes precedence over individual rights. This is especially true in Europe, which has a history of contagious diseases. I experienced this personally when I returned an incorrect positive result on a TB test and my civil rights were immediately abrogated as I was kidnapped by ambulance personnel and confined against my will in a hospital quarantine facility. I had no say whatsoever in the matter. After a couple of days, it was determined I did not have TB and I was unceremoniously dumped on the street to find my own way home.

I think after the example of Typhoid Mary, most civilised countries adopted legislation that gives health authorities power to arbitrarily detain individuals who may potentially be carriers of a disease that poses a threat to others. Covid 19 is clearly such a disease. It is contagious and people die from it. This kind of power exists to serve the greater good. It does not mean the end of democracy.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

kingdragonfly

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#2529752 27-Jul-2020 18:11

Reason, Science, & Humanism Vs. COVID-19

ZDoggMD

We will get through this if we deploy our most time-tested and powerful tools. But that means recognizing our biases and transcending them.

freitasm

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#2529756 27-Jul-2020 18:24

"Vietnam evacuates 80,000 tourists amid new Covid-19 cases in Danang"

Vietnam has evacuated 80,000 tourists from the central city of Danang and reimposed disease-prevention measures, after four local coronavirus cases were detected, the first to be recorded in the country for more than three months.

Social distancing measures have been introduced indefinitely across Danang, a tourist hotspot, with all religious, sports and cultural events suspended. Wearing masks in public places in the city is now compulsory and gatherings of more than 30 people at public places are banned, the government said.

The city’s borders were also shut on Monday to inbound domestic tourists. Almost all foreign travellers are banned from visiting Vietnam, and anyone who does enter the country must quarantine on arrival.

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#2529757 27-Jul-2020 18:26

If You Don’t Know, Now You Know - COVID-19 vs. 1918 Spanish Flu

The Daily Show with Trevor Noah

A look at how America is making the same mistakes with COVID in 2020 as it did with the Spanish Flu in 1918.

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