Nissan LEAF - General

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Ultimate Geek
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#1981461 22-Mar-2018 13:17

leaflearner:

Hi, happyfunball. The dealership was City Nissan, Takapuna, Auckland, from whom I purchased my Pulsar many years ago but who were, of course, unable to help me to upgrade to an EV. For this I had to work through an independent registered dealer. Please let us all know what Nissan Wellington (Gazley) are able to find. I suspect there are regrets all round about this situation. You have to sympathize somewhat with Nissan NZ's approach in abandoning EVs. They couldn't compete on price with late-model Leaf imports, those cars' original purchase prices having been subsidised, I understand, by governments willing to support EV adoption in a way not countenanced by NZ Government.

Hi Leaflearner! I will update the thread next week with my experiences.

I think this issue will come up for other EV's soon, like the Ionic and BMW i3, eGolf etc. A Japanese import will be much cheaper due to subsidies by the Japanese government. I'm not sure how VW and Hyundai honour warranties for imports though, they might be better than Nissan.

SaltyNZ

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#1981466 22-Mar-2018 13:22

Linuxluver:

SaltyNZ:

Just got home, and my OBD dongle has arrived. LeafSpy reports SOH=78.23% for 16,653km. It was 92% when I bought it at 11,000km. That's ... more degradation than I had expected.

How long ago?

Also....have you calibrated the leafspy app correctly in the settings?

It was bought in January. I have spoken to the dealer and he tells me it was 83% when I bought it, but that isn't how I remember it. Certainly, there would be little point spending the extra money on a 30kWh model that had already degraded to 24kWh. Having said that, I have no other reason to doubt it. I don't have a LeafSpy report from any earlier than yesterday.

In terms of calibration I have set it to 30kWh, 2016 model. Is there something else I need to do?

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frednz

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#1981834 23-Mar-2018 09:14

http://evtalk.co.nz/nissan-investigating-reports-of-30kwh-leaf-battery-degradation/

Good news on the "Flip the Fleet" 30 kWh Nissan Leaf fast battery degradation story. The above article reports that:

"A thorough internal investigation is being held, Nissan New Zealand managing director John Manley told The Listener following its story on the issue.

An automotive industry meeting is planned on March 22 to discuss the battery matter and whether it is a global issue, first raised in a Flip the Fleet report."

It's great that Nissan recognises the need to investigate this issue and I hope the results of their investigation will be made public.

At the moment, the research is rather incomplete, particularly without any comment yet available from Nissan. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the automotive industry meeting.

The above article also says that:

“We do not know for certain what the underlying causes of the observed rapid decline are,” Flip the Fleet says. It suggests elevated temperatures and higher states of charge (frequent rapid charging) may be factors.

Insufficient testing has been done to determine whether range is affected, it says.

kingdragonfly

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#1981850 23-Mar-2018 09:38

Anyone have an opinion on this 2018 Nissan Leaf for $58,000

http://autolinkcars.co.nz/search-details.html?id=1263154&veh=2018-Nissan-LEAF-GEN-3-40kWh-ENGLISH-DASH

happyfunball

287 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1981859 23-Mar-2018 10:02

kingdragonfly: Anyone have an opinion on this 2018 Nissan Leaf for $58,000

http://autolinkcars.co.nz/search-details.html?id=1263154&veh=2018-Nissan-LEAF-GEN-3-40kWh-ENGLISH-DASH

Thats a lot of money. The price is pretty close to a brand new VW eGolf with NZ warranty, which is arguably a nicer car with probably higher resale value in years to come, but I think is a tad smaller. You owe it to yourself to test drive one to compare.

Having a 30kwh car with battery degradation myself, I'd be nervous about that 40kwh model which apparently uses the same chemistry. The warnings from Nissan on it are pretty comprehensive, they want you to baby it. The 2019 model should be much nicer and probably thermally managed, which means it should last a lot longer and tolerate more fast charges/heating.

Here is a video discussing this model and its shortcomings compared to a thermally managed, so you can proceed eyes wide open: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlxBOJrEKAo

This could all be paranoia mind you, but I don't think so.

zenourn

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#1981860 23-Mar-2018 10:02

kingdragonfly: Anyone have an opinion on this 2018 Nissan Leaf for $58,000

http://autolinkcars.co.nz/search-details.html?id=1263154&veh=2018-Nissan-LEAF-GEN-3-40kWh-ENGLISH-DASH

What is your intended use? Primarily within city with overnight slow charging, or lots of between city with numerous DC charging sessions?

If the later I'd read this thread:

https://speakev.com/threads/worried-about-leaf-2-rapid-charging-rate.101025/

And this article:

https://pushevs.com/2018/03/18/2018-nissan-leaf-is-a-stopgap-electric-car/

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Elliemay

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Geek
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#1982049 23-Mar-2018 13:16

Hi all,

I am new to this forum, but have spent a bit of time reading through this topic and any other readings I can find related to Nissan LEAF! I am looking at purchasing a 30Kwh Leaf in the next wee while.

I read with some interest the issues of estimated battery degradation in the 30KwH LEAF, and have read the report prepared by Flip the Fleet.

In the report the authors state that the report is based on the Leaf Spy readings, and that they do not (yet?) have data on range changes relative to the Leaf Spy readings.

I would like to know if anybody has performed tests on actual range (not GOM) at varying SOH readings? What I am getting at is determining what impact a reported drop in SOH has on actual range. In my mind this is the actual crux of the issue - not what some device tells us is an estimated measure of battery health, but what performance the battery will actually provide.

Thanks.

SaltyNZ

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#1982055 23-Mar-2018 13:25

Hmmm, well, I only got a dongle this week, but I can tell you that as of about 2 weeks ago from a full charge I can get 150km out of mine with 15% remaining, with no use of air conditioning. LeafSpy is currently reporting ~78%. I bought the 30kWh specifically for the additional range in January. If my old car had held out till this week I think I might instead save $10Kish and get the 24kWh instead as it seems it might last longer in practice. That said, here's hoping Nissan will come to the party.

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gulfa

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Ultimate Geek
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#1982058 23-Mar-2018 13:29

My understanding of this is

Is a battery loses 10% of its charging capacity you would lose 10 % of your range

eg around town I get about 195kms on a full charge so I would expect to lose about 10% in range .

On a trip I get around 175 give or take a few Kms depending on conditions wind elevation etc. So over a period of time (with dregradation)I would expect to have less range and would have more stops and charges on long distances. I would still have the same performance

That's my understanding. I may be wrong????

Elliemay

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Geek
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#1982078 23-Mar-2018 13:57

SaltyNZ:

Hmmm, well, I only got a dongle this week, but I can tell you that as of about 2 weeks ago from a full charge I can get 150km out of mine with 15% remaining, with no use of air conditioning. LeafSpy is currently reporting ~78%. I bought the 30kWh specifically for the additional range in January. If my old car had held out till this week I think I might instead save $10Kish and get the 24kWh instead as it seems it might last longer in practice. That said, here's hoping Nissan will come to the party.

That would work out to about 176km range, which is very close to the EPA combined range of 171.2km for a new (100% SOH) 30KwH LEAF. So even though Leaf Spy is telling you your battery is at only 78% SOH, it seems to have the same range as a 100% SOH battery.

It is only one example, but this is exactly why I am asking for actual range relative to estimated SOH.

Thanks.

Elliemay

38 posts

Geek
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#1982082 23-Mar-2018 13:59

gulfa:

My understanding of this is

Is a battery loses 10% of its charging capacity you would lose 10 % of your range

eg around town I get about 195kms on a full charge so I would expect to lose about 10% in range .

On a trip I get around 175 give or take a few Kms depending on conditions wind elevation etc. So over a period of time (with dregradation)I would expect to have less range and would have more stops and charges on long distances. I would still have the same performance

That's my understanding. I may be wrong????

I would think that is a sound theory, assuming the battery capacity loss is correct/accurate. What is the current SOH for your vehicle?

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gulfa

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Ultimate Geek
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#1982084 23-Mar-2018 14:04

Sorry I don't have a dongle as I am not really worried I just love the car and driving it. I am buying one today more out of curiousity. I drive a mixture of trips mainly around the Hamilton area. Last Labour weekend drove from Hmilton to Whangarei in day . My last charge yesterday to 100% show me a range of 205Kms but this is only because I have only been on 50 Kph areas.

SaltyNZ

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#1982093 23-Mar-2018 14:13

Elliemay:

It is only one example, but this is exactly why I am asking for actual range relative to estimated SOH.

Thanks.

*Shrug* Yeah, who knows... I'm not panicking, but it is nice to know that Nissan are actually taking notice and trying to figure this all out.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

zenourn

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#1982095 23-Mar-2018 14:14

Elliemay:

I would like to know if anybody has performed tests on actual range (not GOM) at varying SOH readings? What I am getting at is determining what impact a reported drop in SOH has on actual range. In my mind this is the actual crux of the issue - not what some device tells us is an estimated measure of battery health, but what performance the battery will actually provide.

We have some preliminary results but have more work to do before we publish formal results. More detail is provided in response to comment 3 at https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/201803.0122/v1

For now there are results from 24 kWh Leafs at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss#Range_Test_on_Cars_with_Battery_Capacity_Loss

I've put this together as a plot:

Distance vs SoH

Elliemay

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Geek
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#1982096 23-Mar-2018 14:16

SaltyNZ:

Elliemay:

It is only one example, but this is exactly why I am asking for actual range relative to estimated SOH.

Thanks.

*Shrug* Yeah, who knows... I'm not panicking, but it is nice to know that Nissan are actually taking notice and trying to figure this all out.

And with your actual range, not panicking seems the right approach, as it would seem to indicate your battery SOH is understated.

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