EV (electric vehicle) News & Discussion

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5896 posts

Uber Geek

#2184607 21-Feb-2019 08:28

wellygary:

GV27:

V2G is actually really attractive to me; we lost power for a couple of days during the storms last year, and having 40kwh in a battery feeding back into the house when we were home from work would have been really useful. It seems like we aren't in a good position to take advantage of it here in NZ.

Personally at the moment I think V2G is an expensive boon doggle, -

for it to have any significant use to run you house you need to have at least a 30a charging setup....

Plus, even with a 40kwh battery you are likely to have 1 maybe two days power max, + storms usually happen in Winter and running any sort of heating is an even heavier load...

On a bang for buck basis its probably cheaper to have a petrol Genny sitting in the basement...

V2G might be useful for shaving bits off peak load... but in a country with high grid reliability its easier ( and cheaper) to do it through large scale setups like The Tesla set up in Victoria...

Basically during a storm outage I'd just use it to power fridges and to charge phones. Maybe run a hot water cylinder? I wouldn't want to be falling back on it all the time simply because it would stuff a car battery but the capital cost is too much for what is effectively a part of your civil defence kit.

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2184698 21-Feb-2019 09:46

GV27:

Basically during a storm outage I'd just use it to power fridges and to charge phones. Maybe run a hot water cylinder? I wouldn't want to be falling back on it all the time simply because it would stuff a car battery but the capital cost is too much for what is effectively a part of your civil defence kit.

Rearranging your existing household wiring so you can run only certain devices off an alternative source is a PITA and simply makes the costs uneconomic...

Delphinus

611 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2184704 21-Feb-2019 10:22

wellygary:

GV27:

Basically during a storm outage I'd just use it to power fridges and to charge phones. Maybe run a hot water cylinder? I wouldn't want to be falling back on it all the time simply because it would stuff a car battery but the capital cost is too much for what is effectively a part of your civil defence kit.

Rearranging your existing household wiring so you can run only certain devices off an alternative source is a PITA and simply makes the costs uneconomic...

Or just turn off the devices you don't want to run during the outage when car is providing power. Then turn them back on again when grid power resumes...

tdgeek

29740 posts

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#2184707 21-Feb-2019 10:27

I looked at V2G a while back, as I try to justify Solar PV and an EV. Details, sketchy but it came down to an EV battery is not designed for that type of charging so it degrades battery life. It's designed for being charged at the EV charging rate, and being drained by the draw used in driving. The backwards and different power use with the house messes it up. But when it is sorted out, so its just PnP, it would be awesome, it could justify a few more solar panels and give great flexibility to use the house for the car, the car for the house, and solar PV for the house and/or car. Many work from home these days, more flexibility again

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

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Lifetime subscriber

#2184721 21-Feb-2019 10:56

tdgeek:

I looked at V2G a while back, as I try to justify Solar PV and an EV. Details, sketchy but it came down to an EV battery is not designed for that type of charging so it degrades battery life. It's designed for being charged at the EV charging rate, and being drained by the draw used in driving. The backwards and different power use with the house messes it up. But when it is sorted out, so its just PnP, it would be awesome, it could justify a few more solar panels and give great flexibility to use the house for the car, the car for the house, and solar PV for the house and/or car. Many work from home these days, more flexibility again

The future. Sigh.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

MarkH67

517 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2186010 23-Feb-2019 18:48

I think about the future too, I think there is a lot to look forward to.

Currently I drive a 24kWh Nissan Leaf, it is great in many ways, but also very limited. On the good side - I have driven over 25,000kms in 18 months and the battery seems to be giving me about the same range as when I got the car, so very slow degradation in this time. But at the full open road speed limit of 100kph actual (110kph indicated on the dash) the car realistically only travels 100km on a full charge, which is fine for my 70km (35km each way) commute each day.

But for a long trip it really isn't the right vehicle for the job. Tomorrow I'm heading to New Plymouth and there is a stretch of 162km with no fast charger along the way, so I'll be driving a fossil fuel burner instead of my Leaf.

My plan is to save a heap of money commuting in my Leaf and in 4 or 5 years time I'll buy a 2-year old EV. So that will be a car made in 2021 or 2022. I'm expecting that car to have over 400km range when I buy it. Tomorrow I'll drive a total of ~550km, with my next EV that would be a trip easily done with only one stop needed and it wouldn't even need to be a very long stop.

Right now, if you have two cars in the household then most likely one should be electric. In 2 to 5 years time it should be easy enough to have an EV as the only car or two EVs if you have two cars. Within 5 years most people will have no need of a fossil fuel burner at all.

I look at the new cars coming out and I can see that in '21 or '22 there will be plenty of choices of suitable cars. With the Hyundai Kona, Kia e-Nero, 2020 Kia Soul EV all on 64kWh batteries and who knows how many other cars coming out with similar batteries - there will be a huge range of options within a couple of years. Since today you can buy a Hyundai Kona with a real-world range of over 400km, it shouldn't be hard to buy a two-year old car in five years time with over 400km range at a reasonable price. I'm really looking forward to my next car that can be not just a commuter vehicle, but truly a 'do everything' vehicle.

tripper1000

1617 posts

Uber Geek

#2186259 24-Feb-2019 12:13

If you want to run your fridges in a power cut, simply buy a 1000 Watt pure-sine inverter and run it off the leaf's 12v battery, with the ignition on. I've done it and it works fine.

V2G isn't currently an economical proposition in N.Z. It is aimed at markets where there is a huge difference between on and off peak prices because the electricity is primarily generated by thermal plants (coal & nuclear such as Europe & the UK), where it is expensive to start the plants up and also expensive to shut them down. In N.Z. we have a massive amount of pre-existing grid level storage in the form of hydro-dams. This stabilises on/off peak prices, so the economic drivers behind V2G do not exist in N.Z.

Even if you have/want large amounts of solar, V2G is useless to most people because when the sun is shining, 5/7ths of the time their EV's are at work and not their garages at home.

Hydro compliments other forms of renewable, particularly those that are cyclic such as solar, wind and tide, as well as being a carbon free source of power in its own right. In N.Z. there is a misguided, non environmental movement against hydro & wind that is pro porting to environmental but in actuality cares about visual impacts, not the overall health of the planet.

Transpower wrote a report that the N.Z. power system can handle up 2000 Megawatts of solar generation before we need to make significant changes (such as battery storage & V2G) to support it. Currently we have about 70 Megawatts.

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kingdragonfly

11190 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#2186437 24-Feb-2019 17:55

This EV Is Like a Smaller, Lighter Tesla

"After 11 years of development, the Arcimoto has finally arrived. It's a three-wheeled, all-electric vehicle that is small, fast and incredibly fun to drive. The grand vision behind the Arcimoto is that people will use it for most of their day-to-day driving instead of relying on their bulky, gas guzzling cars. But, the jury is very much out on whether or not consumers will pay $12,000 a pop to back this societal and environmental experiment. On this episode of Hello World, reporter Ashlee Vance heads to the Arcimoto's birthplace in Eugene, Oregon to take the vehicle out for a spin and to hear the saga of its creation."

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2186460 24-Feb-2019 19:01

kingdragonfly: This EV Is Like a Smaller, Lighter Tesla

No, its nothing like a Tesla, which is like 99.999% of ICE cars, a Tesla has doors, seats for more than 2, heating and cooling, entertainment, etc

This is another take on the "$10,000 glorified electric motorbike/microcar " that urbanists and dreamers have thought the world are just waiting to buy...

Others have gone by the name of "G-whizz" "Twizy" "city transformer" .... THis will be another one to add to the list....

PhantomNVD

2619 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2186464 24-Feb-2019 19:08

tripper1000:
Even if you have/want large amounts of solar, V2G is useless to most people because when the sun is shining, 5/7ths of the time their EV's are at work and not their garages at home.

Hydro compliments other forms of renewable, particularly those that are cyclic such as solar, wind and tide, as well as being a carbon free source of power in its own right. In N.Z. there is a misguided, non environmental movement against hydro & wind that is pro porting to environmental but in actuality cares about visual impacts, not the overall health of the planet.

But V2G totally makes sense when coupled with an aging EV (likemy 2011 Leaf) which will be 7-8bars (50-60 kms) range limited in a year or so, and would then make more sense (being WAY cheaper) becoming a V2G parked up storage space (Think Tesla Powerwall) with the potential to be used as second car when occasionally needed...

Solar/off grid/rural or just ‘squeezed’ by the electric companies changing fortunes/dry years... any of these situations increase its value, and likelihood too?

kingdragonfly

11190 posts

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Subscriber

#2186491 24-Feb-2019 20:19

kingdragonfly: This EV Is Like a Smaller, Lighter Tesla

I'm quoting the Youtube title. I wouldn't buy it either, because you can't: it's not yet produced. The model they're showing lack doors, but I've seen pictures of ones with gull-wing ones.

tdgeek

29740 posts

Uber Geek

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Lifetime subscriber

#2186594 24-Feb-2019 23:30

Quite a good read.

Edit: Link would be helpful https://thedriven.io/2018/10/19/v2g-whats-the-state-of-play-with-vehicle-to-grid-vehicle-to-home-technology/

Rikkitic

Awrrr
18657 posts

Uber Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2186712 25-Feb-2019 10:24

Interesting historical perspective. Ford has a lot to answer for.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

PolicyGuy

1726 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2186725 25-Feb-2019 10:34

tripper1000:

[snip]

Transpower wrote a report that the N.Z. power system can handle up 2000 Megawatts of solar generation before we need to make significant changes (such as battery storage & V2G) to support it. Currently we have about 70 Megawatts.

Can you provide a reference / link to that please?

wellygary

8312 posts

Uber Geek

#2186737 25-Feb-2019 11:00

PolicyGuy:

tripper1000:

[snip]

Transpower wrote a report that the N.Z. power system can handle up 2000 Megawatts of solar generation before we need to make significant changes (such as battery storage & V2G) to support it. Currently we have about 70 Megawatts.

Can you provide a reference / link to that please?

They will be talking about this

"Some have interpreted the Green Grid analysis3 to suggest New Zealand electricity distribution networks could host at most 2GW of distributed solar before voltage constraints became a barrier. Our recent analysis has found new technology means this isn’t the case. By exploiting the natural partnership between solar and battery technology (and the utilisation of inverter capabilities), anticipated voltage constraints in electricity networks could be managed to enable networks to host 9-10GW of solar."

Page 8

https://www.transpower.co.nz/sites/default/files/plain-page/attachments/Te%20Mauri%20Hiko%20%E2%80%93%20the%20sun%20rises%20-%20published.pdf

https://www.transpower.co.nz/about-us/transmission-tomorrow/sun-rises-solar-energy-future

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