Do we have an excess of road policing in New Zealand?

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3885 posts

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#1352170 26-Jul-2015 21:22

We need mandatory practical driver testing for people who already have their licences. As currently you can get your full licence in your teenage years. And then it is over 50 years until you next need to do a practical driving test. I don't see how having a 50+ year gap between practical tests is appropriate. Considering the generally poor standard of driving we all see.

The "over the top" road policing is an attempt to fix this. But it will never work, as the poor drivers simply think that all they need to do is keep to the speed limit. And then they cause crashes due to things like following too closely, failing to give way, failing to indicate, driving too fast for the conditions, blocking people from overtaking. (Especially as the speed limit only rarely reflects how dangerous a road is to drive on)

frankv

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#1352232 27-Jul-2015 07:17

MikeB4:
freitasm:
MikeB4: Given our accident rate, fatality rate and general very low standard of driving I would say no.

Is this your opinion or do you have numbers for both US and NZ to compare?

some examples of accident rates per 100,000 vehicles

Australia 7.6
UK 6.2
Germany 6.9
Denmark 5.7
Finland 6.6
New Zealand 10.3
USA 13.6

Whilst this is more relevant than what the Police publicise, you could equally conclude that it's just because we own less cars than the USA and more than Denmark.

A better statistic would be accidents per total distance driven (e.g www.ogp.org.uk/pubs/434-09.pdf). However, even that is skewed because NZers are more likely to be driving on the open road than (say) Denmark, or because NZers drive older (and consequently with less safety equipment like ABS or airbags) cars than (say) Germany, or because there are more trucks or motorcycles or whatever.

MikeB4

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#1352236 27-Jul-2015 07:37

frankv:
MikeB4:
freitasm:
MikeB4: Given our accident rate, fatality rate and general very low standard of driving I would say no.

Is this your opinion or do you have numbers for both US and NZ to compare?

some examples of accident rates per 100,000 vehicles

Australia 7.6
UK 6.2
Germany 6.9
Denmark 5.7
Finland 6.6
New Zealand 10.3
USA 13.6

Whilst this is more relevant than what the Police publicise, you could equally conclude that it's just because we own less cars than the USA and more than Denmark.

A better statistic would be accidents per total distance driven (e.g www.ogp.org.uk/pubs/434-09.pdf). However, even that is skewed because NZers are more likely to be driving on the open road than (say) Denmark, or because NZers drive older (and consequently with less safety equipment like ABS or airbags) cars than (say) Germany, or because there are more trucks or motorcycles or whatever.

My opinion is there is four contributing factors in NZ.....
A, poor roading infrastructure
B, age and condition of the vehicle stock
C, low general driver skill
D, very low compliance with road rules

scuwp

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#1352237 27-Jul-2015 07:38

muppet: Pretty sure we have an excess of these threads.

Can't say I disagree, as they do morf into the same arguments despite the OP's original topic, however no one is compelled to read or comment.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

jmh

458 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1352263 27-Jul-2015 08:25

MikeB4:
frankv:
MikeB4:
freitasm:
MikeB4: Given our accident rate, fatality rate and general very low standard of driving I would say no.

Is this your opinion or do you have numbers for both US and NZ to compare?

some examples of accident rates per 100,000 vehicles

Australia 7.6
UK 6.2
Germany 6.9
Denmark 5.7
Finland 6.6
New Zealand 10.3
USA 13.6

Whilst this is more relevant than what the Police publicise, you could equally conclude that it's just because we own less cars than the USA and more than Denmark.

A better statistic would be accidents per total distance driven (e.g www.ogp.org.uk/pubs/434-09.pdf). However, even that is skewed because NZers are more likely to be driving on the open road than (say) Denmark, or because NZers drive older (and consequently with less safety equipment like ABS or airbags) cars than (say) Germany, or because there are more trucks or motorcycles or whatever.

My opinion is there is four contributing factors in NZ.....
A, poor roading infrastructure
B, age and condition of the vehicle stock
C, low general driver skill
D, very low compliance with road rules

Yeah I agree with those four. I've lived and driven in the UK and all four of those apply when comparing. You see a lot more cowboy racers and weaving in and out of traffic on motorways here, for example. Compared to kiwis, the Brits are also generally rule followers, imo.

MikeSkyrme

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#1352266 27-Jul-2015 08:33

I don't believe there is an excess of road policing in NZ. However, I believe the priorities of the road police in NZ need to be readdressed.

Simply parking up and waiting for a speedster is not effective road policing, when a better way to be effective and reduce the accidents and subsequent injuries / deaths would be by taking the initiative to remove the idiots from the road who:

Undertake vehicles already travelling at the speed limit.
Do not have indicator stalks fitted on their cars, or are at least untrained in the use thereof.
Drive too slow.
Tailgate.
Drive erratically.

Michael Skyrme - Instrumentation & Controls

trig42

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#1352271 27-Jul-2015 08:51

I don't feel like the roads are over-policed.
If you are comparing with the US Interstates, and take only NZ motorways into account (maybe also the Waikato expressway bits that are finished too), I hardly ever see Police parked up there. I do see Police cars travelling these roads, and I do see Camera vans, but very rarely a police speed trap (the only place I have seen them is at the start of the Northwestern Motorway (SH16) in Auckland where you sweep around from either the Southern or Northern motorways and can build up quite a speed).

Agree with posters above, however, regarding the priorities of the road police - for some reason it seems that a lot of drivers on NZ roads are just craptactularly selfish, and this has flow on effects. Not sure how we can be forced to change, but change is needed.

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mdooher

Hmm, what to write...
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#1352272 27-Jul-2015 08:55

MikeSkyrme:

Simply parking up and waiting for a speedster is not effective road policing, when a better way to be effective and reduce the accidents and subsequent injuries / deaths would be by taking the initiative to remove the idiots from the road who:

Undertake vehicles already travelling at the speed limit.

It is an offence to drive in the right hand lane unless overtaking. Traveling at the speed limit is not a defense.

It is not an offence to undertake in a marked lane. If you don't like people undertaking you then get out of the right hand lane.

IMHO if the roading police concentrated on this instead of speeding it would speed up traffic flow and lessen the accident rate.

Matthew

afe66

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#1352288 27-Jul-2015 09:17

As someone who has one speeding ticket in 30 years of driving, these posts on GZ complaining about being "unfairly" ticketed for being just a little above limit get tiresome.

Drive under the speed limit.

(why don't we see the posts complaining about not able to be a little over the drink limit, that girl being a little under the age of consent, me paying little less tax than law says)

(Ducks)

pdath

252 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1352302 27-Jul-2015 09:27

We seem to have an obsession at the moment that the only acceptable road toll is zero. I find this target could only be reached with a lot of cotton wool.

I find that having some deaths on the road acceptable, and in fact inevitable. Once you can accept that having people die on the road is acceptable, no matter how sad or terrible it is, then you come to realise that we could ease up a lot on telling people what to do and how to do it (which is what rigid enforcement is all about).

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afe66

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#1352310 27-Jul-2015 09:38

We also have an obsession in thinking we are better than average drivers and that it's always the other person who is driving badly...

BTR

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#1352364 27-Jul-2015 10:24

The highways in the US and Australia are generally wider and straighter than ours.

scuwp

3885 posts

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#1352387 27-Jul-2015 10:44

trig42: for some reason it seems that a lot of drivers on NZ roads are just craptactularly selfish

...and we have a winner. Quote of the day! Love it, and 100% true. Whole societal issue, there is no respect or care of others, and it's always someone else's fault. It always amazes me how people are more scared of getting a piece of paper from a cop, than they are of dying or killing someone else.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

scuwp

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#1352390 27-Jul-2015 10:45

BTR: The highways in the US and Australia are generally wider and straighter than ours.

Most fatal/serious crashes in NZ happen of dry straight roads, in the middle of the afternoon, on fine sunny days. Go figure.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

BTR

1527 posts

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#1352404 27-Jul-2015 10:54

scuwp:
BTR: The highways in the US and Australia are generally wider and straighter than ours.

Most fatal/serious crashes in NZ happen of dry straight roads, in the middle of the afternoon, on fine sunny days. Go figure.

Probably due to excess speed or lack of attention, thus having more road police is helpful. If you are not speeding or being stupid you have nothing to fear.

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