EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#1907122 24-Nov-2017 14:23

I thought the petrol taxes just go into the consolidated fund..

Yes in time (years) there will be a move to add road user charges to electric car too.

Hopefully when they do this the ruc will be more logical with small lighter cars paying less than big suburban suvs.

For me even if I had to pay ruc, I'd still be happy with my ev.

Varkk

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#1907171 24-Nov-2017 15:50

afe66: I thought the petrol taxes just go into the consolidated fund..

Yes in time (years) there will be a move to add road user charges to electric car too.

Hopefully when they do this the ruc will be more logical with small lighter cars paying less than big suburban suvs.

For me even if I had to pay ruc, I'd still be happy with my ev.

I think they will be charged RUC the same as light diesels, e.g the Golf Diesel. They are exempt at the moment to try to improve adoption. It is going to be enacted once they hit 5% of the vehicle fleet.

kingdragonfly

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#1908090 26-Nov-2017 18:53

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/99074823/petrol-cars-could-vanish-as-quickly-as-the-horse-and-carriage

It's painful to read this article.

First why is anyone listening to a US economist, Tony Seba, about getting more EV's on the road? The US can't even maintain its own infrastructure.

The US government gives subsidies in the form of about a NZ $10,000 tax credit. Whether you want to call a tax credit a subsidy or not, it's money in US citizens pockets for buying EV's.

Second, in an astounding stupid statement: "Instead the most useful thing policy-makers could do was to encourage pilots of driverless vehicles."

It's not surprising that a US economist would use a false equivalence, since his president makes it a daily routine. A driverless cars doesn't have to be an EV.

I know it's contrary for an American not to give advice. However in New Zealand our elected officials do more than post nasty Tweets about each other, and attend fund-raisers; we actually implement policies (Strange, ain't it)

Tony, why don't you spend your time talking to the US government official about getting back on the global warming bandwagon.

MarkH67

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#1908105 26-Nov-2017 19:07

kingdragonfly: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/99074823/petrol-cars-could-vanish-as-quickly-as-the-horse-and-carriage

He may well be right about what will happen, I'm not sure I'd agree with his 'when' though.

Predicting the future is far from an exact science, so it is hard to say for sure. But I'm very doubtful that no petrol car will be made from 2025. I'm quite sure that no petrol car will be made from a given date in the future and it might not be all that far ahead, but I'd go more with 2030 - 2035.

Going to non-ownership of cars and using some sort of autonomous Uber service? Maybe, eventually. It will probably start happening in the cities much sooner. In cities like New York a lot of people use taxis rather than their own cars, I could see driverless Uber cars taking over a city like that well ahead of some small town. For a lot of people not owning a car will take a rather major culturaly shift, this wont happen overnight.

kingdragonfly

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#1908150 26-Nov-2017 20:36

The ironic thing about a US economist commenting on EVs is that a Chinese economist would be more relevant.

The Chinese have been quietly but relentlessly buying shares in every chemical used in making current generation batteries.

All while the US government looks to become irrelevant in current technology battery production.

Of course there could be a new miracle battery which doesn't rely on lithium, in particular. But it's likely the Chinese will have a stranglehold on most of the raw materials for the near future.

Lastman

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#1908169 26-Nov-2017 21:27

About the only thing futurologists ever got right was the 3-D printer, except they didn’t get it quite right because every home doesn’t have one. That is for fairly obvious reasons. They often sweep aside common sense analysis that would lead them to more accurate conclusions.

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PhantomNVD

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#1911354 30-Nov-2017 22:11

Now here’s an interesting idea for longer distance without the constant wait for your Batteries to charge...

http://powerswap.se

Aredwood

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#1911371 1-Dec-2017 01:16

Linuxluver:

Yes...I'd love to see a fee-bate system where levies on dinosaur burners above a certain value go to making Evs cheaper for everyone. This would avoid impacting low-income people or people who wan't to drive a car worth less than $5000......for example. Even if it was just tagging the GST on the ICE cars for use as rebates on EVs. That would be revenue neutral to government and car buyers......but help make EVs cheaper quickly. Adding GST or a duty to used, imported fossil-fuel cars would be another step....

A tax on importing ICE cars would be a bad idea. As existing ICE cars already on the road will just go up in price. Meaning people will hold onto them for longer, and when they break down or get crashed. They will be more likely to be repaired and put back onto the road, instead of being written off.

Take a look at the list of the most popular new cars in NZ. Most of them are Utes and SUVs. Yet there is no electric Ute available. And the only full electric SUV that I know of is the Tesla Model X, Which costs big $$$ to buy.

Don't get me wrong, Im all for more electric cars. But penalising people for not buying an electric car, when an electric version of what they currently drive doesn't exist. Is not going to do anything to help increase the uptake of electric cars. Myself - Even though a suitable EV for my needs doesn't yet exist today. Im still watching the EV market, and hoping that a suitable one will get released soon. Also my upcoming switchboard and mains cable upgrade on my house will be designed with the need of future EV charging in mind. And it also gives me an excuse to get 3 phase installed. Although from some quick googling, it appears that the Leaf doesn't support 3 phase AC charging. Yet most other EVs do support 3 Phase charging.

My prediction, is that EVs will relatively quickly reach approx 80% adoption. But it will be an extremely long time before they take over the final 20%.

Linuxluver

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#1911430 1-Dec-2017 08:46

frednz:

It’s interesting to see that 30,762 vehicles were registered for the month of October 2017, comprising 25,218 cars and 5,544 commercials.

There were 15,517 new vehicles registered and 15,245 used vehicles.

Out of the 30,762 vehicles registered, only 390 were classified as “electric” (1.3%).

It’s hard to imagine that we need to add another 30,000 vehicles to our roads in just one month, most of which burn petrol or diesel.

Ouch, it's going to take ages for EVs to comprise the majority of vehicles on our roads!

Under past policy settings that would be true. I'm looking for changes to policy ni the year ahead to speed that up.

That said, EV uptake is growing rapidly from it's small base. On January 1st there were about 56 Tesla cars registered and that rose to 260 by October 31st. Also, that 1.3% is a record. :-)

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Linuxluver

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#1911431 1-Dec-2017 08:47

afe66: I thought the petrol taxes just go into the consolidated fund..

Yes in time (years) there will be a move to add road user charges to electric car too.

Hopefully when they do this the ruc will be more logical with small lighter cars paying less than big suburban suvs.

For me even if I had to pay ruc, I'd still be happy with my ev.

Everyone should pay RUC but fossil-fuel cars should pay a carbon levy in addition to that. RUC is for the roads. The Carbon levy is for emissions.

The carbon should be used to provide incentives to stop buying fossil-fuel vehicles.

China have a very aggressive approach. They ration the number of ICE cars that can be registered new....The reg costs a bomb and take months to get.... But you can walk in and buy an EV today and drive away......and it's much cheaper.

The Chinese government can be pretty awful, but when they want things to happen, they HAPPEN. That is more like what we need at this point...globally.

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Linuxluver

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#1911435 1-Dec-2017 08:56

MarkH67:

kingdragonfly: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/99074823/petrol-cars-could-vanish-as-quickly-as-the-horse-and-carriage

He may well be right about what will happen, I'm not sure I'd agree with his 'when' though.

Predicting the future is far from an exact science, so it is hard to say for sure. But I'm very doubtful that no petrol car will be made from 2025. I'm quite sure that no petrol car will be made from a given date in the future and it might not be all that far ahead, but I'd go more with 2030 - 2035.

Going to non-ownership of cars and using some sort of autonomous Uber service? Maybe, eventually. It will probably start happening in the cities much sooner. In cities like New York a lot of people use taxis rather than their own cars, I could see driverless Uber cars taking over a city like that well ahead of some small town. For a lot of people not owning a car will take a rather major culturaly shift, this wont happen overnight.

It may be that no purely petrol car will be made from 2025......they may all be hybrids (mostly pluggable) at least, if not pure battery electric.

2015 is 8 years away. The cellphone I had 8 years ago was an HTC Magic android phone. One of the very first. It cost over $1000....and was less capable than the $75 smart phones you can buy now at Countdown or The Warehouse.

Cars cost more......and are far more complex to make....so it will take longer. But there are a lot people in huge cities who are post-car anyway. There just isn't the space for them in the mega cities. Cars are a low-population-density transport mode.

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Linuxluver

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#1911438 1-Dec-2017 09:05

Aredwood:

A tax on importing ICE cars would be a bad idea. As existing ICE cars already on the road will just go up in price. Meaning people will hold onto them for longer, and when they break down or get crashed. They will be more likely to be repaired and put back onto the road, instead of being written off.

Take a look at the list of the most popular new cars in NZ. Most of them are Utes and SUVs. Yet there is no electric Ute available. And the only full electric SUV that I know of is the Tesla Model X, Which costs big $$$ to buy.

Don't get me wrong, Im all for more electric cars. But penalising people for not buying an electric car, when an electric version of what they currently drive doesn't exist. Is not going to do anything to help increase the uptake of electric cars. Myself - Even though a suitable EV for my needs doesn't yet exist today. Im still watching the EV market, and hoping that a suitable one will get released soon. Also my upcoming switchboard and mains cable upgrade on my house will be designed with the need of future EV charging in mind. And it also gives me an excuse to get 3 phase installed. Although from some quick googling, it appears that the Leaf doesn't support 3 phase AC charging. Yet most other EVs do support 3 Phase charging.

My prediction, is that EVs will relatively quickly reach approx 80% adoption. But it will be an extremely long time before they take over the final 20%.

I agree. Any penalties / rebates should apply where equivalents are available and regulations must require those to BE available.....or there is no incentive for local dealers to do anything at all. A schedule of target dates aligned with manufacturer announcements would be a good start. If VW, for example, say they are going to have EVs from 2020.....then, fine.....from 2021 50% of their cars sold in NZ have to be EVs. Govt can assist where required when the market fails.....as it most often does in little NZ.

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WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1911530 1-Dec-2017 10:38

I've a relatively serious question on EVs, and that is, aside from the few Tesla superchargers appearing and the odd Council EV parking spot, what is happening with the re-charging infrastructure that just isn’t there yet?

Take the BP service station in Taupo central, and say it has 14 pumps. For arguments sake, let’s say it take 5 minutes per car for a car to fill up. So 1 pump is servicing 12 cars an hour and the service station itself is turning over 168 cars an hour. The traveller, commuter, local can fill up, and be on their way fairly quickly.

In the linked story, an owner of a Tesla Model X says it takes roughly half an hour to charge, giving a range of 250km’s. In Taupo, there is a Tesla Supercharger (x4), so based on this owners comments, that ‘fill up’ station can process 8 cars an hour. 8 vs 168. It’s a bit of a difference isn’t it?

http://www.driven.co.nz/news/lifestyle/me-my-car-he-s-charging-ahead-in-a-tesla/

It also raises the question of who is going to stump up he capital to build and maintain the infrastructure network? The big Oil companies? The local councils? Government?

And yes, I know you can\could charge an EV at home for most of your requirements, but an infrastructure network similar to that used by ICE vehicles still needs to exist for those that don't have a home charge point. I'm lucky that i do currently have a garage where I rent, but my brother doesn't, and his vehicle can be parked sometimes close to where he lives, or a bit further away.

kingdragonfly

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#1911560 1-Dec-2017 11:08

Regarding people who live in apartments, or in almost all rentals, you do make a valid point.

By the same token, renters tend to live in high-density locations, so owning a car is more likely to be burdensome.

WyleECoyoteNZ

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#1911564 1-Dec-2017 11:27

kingdragonfly: Regarding people who live in apartments, or in almost all rentals, you do make a valid point.

By the same token, renters tend to live in high-density locations, so owning a car is more likely to be burdensome.

And there's another thing I hadn't thought of....in an apartment building, the building owner may put in charging points for EV's, then who pays? Does the body corporate cover it, therefore increasing costs to all, regardless of EV ownership, or do you as an owner\renter pay for a some sort of separate meter in the carpark?

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