Ditch Road User Charges?

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elpenguino

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#2285738 30-Jul-2019 13:54

Lias:

Group riders failing to keep left is by far my biggest personal gripe about cyclist behaviour.

how DARE cyclists use my road - does this mean " I had to wait SECONDS to get past them."?

TBH you sound very curmudgeonly.

If you have a real gripe about injustice in the world you could devote your energy to a more meaningful cause.

It's not really about unfair taxing regimes is it though? All taxation systems will be unfair to someone and it's up to society to decide if a system is fair or not.

Bad news - society doesn't think cyclists should be taxed anymore than they already are. Conversely, there's growing impetus for taxation on FF powered vehicles to be increased.

With the congestion we suffer in cities , caused by cars not packs of cyclists, all vehicles are likely to face increased costs for parking, tolls, access/congestion charges and taxation.

First thing government can do in the name of justice is tax those space-hogging, inefficient, middle-aged crisis utes off the road.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Lias

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#2285864 30-Jul-2019 17:15

elpenguino:

how DARE cyclists use my road - does this mean " I had to wait SECONDS to get past them."?

TBH you sound very curmudgeonly.

If you have a real gripe about injustice in the world you could devote your energy to a more meaningful cause.

It's not really about unfair taxing regimes is it though? All taxation systems will be unfair to someone and it's up to society to decide if a system is fair or not.

Bad news - society doesn't think cyclists should be taxed anymore than they already are. Conversely, there's growing impetus for taxation on FF powered vehicles to be increased.

With the congestion we suffer in cities , caused by cars not packs of cyclists, all vehicles are likely to face increased costs for parking, tolls, access/congestion charges and taxation.

First thing government can do in the name of justice is tax those space-hogging, inefficient, middle-aged crisis utes off the road.

I'm nowhere near old enough to be a curmudgeon. Give me a few decades. I don't think it's unreasonable to object to packs of cyclists blocking the road and not pulling over to the left. Vehicle drivers would be ticketed for holding up traffic for the same behaviour.

I don't know if I agree with you that society doesn't think cyclists should be taxed any more, I suspect most people just haven't thought about it. I don't particularly object to FF powered vehicles being taxed more heavily but only as the prices of EV's drop (sans subsidy). I drive a reasonably fuel efficient if antique 1.5L Kia Rio btw, not a midlife crisis :-P. I'd happily drive an EV if they weren't stupidly expensive still, particularly second hand.. Most people I know never spend more than 10k on a car, and plenty of them never spend more than half that.. There's absolutely no EV's in that price range.

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elpenguino

3423 posts

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#2285867 30-Jul-2019 17:23

Lias:

elpenguino:

how DARE cyclists use my road - does this mean " I had to wait SECONDS to get past them."?

TBH you sound very curmudgeonly.

If you have a real gripe about injustice in the world you could devote your energy to a more meaningful cause.

It's not really about unfair taxing regimes is it though? All taxation systems will be unfair to someone and it's up to society to decide if a system is fair or not.

Bad news - society doesn't think cyclists should be taxed anymore than they already are. Conversely, there's growing impetus for taxation on FF powered vehicles to be increased.

With the congestion we suffer in cities , caused by cars not packs of cyclists, all vehicles are likely to face increased costs for parking, tolls, access/congestion charges and taxation.

First thing government can do in the name of justice is tax those space-hogging, inefficient, middle-aged crisis utes off the road.

I'm nowhere near old enough to be a curmudgeon. Give me a few decades. I don't think it's unreasonable to object to packs of cyclists blocking the road and not pulling over to the left. Vehicle drivers would be ticketed for holding up traffic for the same behaviour.

Curmudgeon-ness is a state of mind :-)

it is unreasonable to object to cyclists and specifically only cyclists for impeding you. I get held up all the time by dorks driving 20% below the speed limit, entering intersections when the exit is not clear etc etc but I'm not baying for their blood cos I accept the roads are a shared resource and sh*t happens.

Where the heck do you find a pack of cyclists these days anyway?

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

Kyanar

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#2285874 30-Jul-2019 17:36

Lias:

I'm nowhere near old enough to be a curmudgeon. Give me a few decades. I don't think it's unreasonable to object to packs of cyclists blocking the road and not pulling over to the left. Vehicle drivers would be ticketed for holding up traffic for the same behaviour.

Often cyclists who are riding further out from the left are doing so specifically to discourage unsafe passing, and the obligation is on you to pass safely. Bear in mind the legislation does permit you to cross a no passing (solid centre) line in order to do so, which is a little known fact (in Australia, they make this fact far more known). It requires very little road length to overtake a cyclist, so can be completed significantly faster than another car.

You still seem to be exhibiting a bit of an anti-cyclist bias, and your further posts are doing you no favours.

Lias

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#2286089 30-Jul-2019 21:51

elpenguino:

Curmudgeon-ness is a state of mind :-)

it is unreasonable to object to cyclists and specifically only cyclists for impeding you. I get held up all the time by dorks driving 20% below the speed limit, entering intersections when the exit is not clear etc etc but I'm not baying for their blood cos I accept the roads are a shared resource and sh*t happens.

Where the heck do you find a pack of cyclists these days anyway?

I always thought you had to be OLD and grumpy to be a curmudgeon. I'm not quite at the get off my lawn dammit stage yet :-P

I don't _only_ object to cyclists impeding me, there is a special place in <unpleasant afterlife of choice> for anyone who doesn't keep left and let traffic go past, but I've found for some reason groups of cyclists are particularly bad at it. Especially in the places I seem to find them like on twisty hills on weekends.

Lias

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#2286099 30-Jul-2019 21:54

Kyanar:

You still seem to be exhibiting a bit of an anti-cyclist bias, and your further posts are doing you no favours.

No doubt.. we all have our biases, and while as I noted I don't hate cyclists I'm not exactly a fan of them either.

floydbloke

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#2286162 31-Jul-2019 07:39

elpenguino:

...

First thing government can do in the name of justice is tax those space-hogging, inefficient, middle-aged crisis utes off the road.

First thing government (central and local) needs to do is provide decent transport alternatives.

It's all fine to hear millennial city-dwellers whine on about the evil of cars, but for middle-aged suburbanites and provincialites who need to commute to help keep the country's productivity wheel turning there is little in the way of cost-effective, time-effective public transport (take Wellington, the bus network is a clusterf***, peak-time trains are over-full and lots of cancellations due to breakdowns or staff shortages, Park & Ride is not an option because the carparks at the stations are full by 7.15am) so the car it is. Sometimes a bit slow but it's warm, dry and relatively comfortable.

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GV27

5897 posts

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#2286173 31-Jul-2019 08:05

I find the cycling debate tends to also be dominated by people who have the time, luxury or lifestyle that allows cycling; usually these aren't people going from one side of the city to the other every day for work. Just because some people can cycle from their 9-5 job in the CBD to their home in Freemans Bay doesn't mean they can expect everyone else to, even if there is some loftier reasoning behind it. No, I don't hate the climate, I just happen to work 30km from home.

For the vast majority of people it would involve a significant sacrifice in time and/or employment opportunities.

evilengineer

466 posts

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#2286190 31-Jul-2019 08:30

floydbloke:

First thing government (central and local) needs to do is provide decent transport alternatives.

It's all fine to hear millennial city-dwellers whine on about the evil of cars, but for middle-aged suburbanites and provincialites who need to commute to help keep the country's productivity wheel turning there is little in the way of cost-effective, time-effective public transport (take Wellington, the bus network is a clusterf***, peak-time trains are over-full and lots of cancellations due to breakdowns or staff shortages, Park & Ride is not an option because the carparks at the stations are full by 7.15am) so the car it is. Sometimes a bit slow but it's warm, dry and relatively comfortable.

Yeah, and the first thing that will happen is that people will start harping on about how the new bus/rail/park & ride/magic unicorn merry-go-round service is being unfairly subsidised and that it should be "user pays".

Then it all gets cancelled by National because it's, you know, "uneconomical".

And people can go back to complaining about the extra congestion and demand a new highway/bypass at tax payer expense. Which for some reason isn't a subsidy but an investment.

Ever get the feeling you just can't win? 😜

GV27

5897 posts

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#2286196 31-Jul-2019 08:41

evilengineer:

Ever get the feeling you just can't win? 😜

That's why I love West Auckland - the motorway fills the entire corridor, it just can't get any bigger than it already is.

And yet it's still congested...almost like the answer isn't more lanes for cars, like it's some sort of alternative method of transport. But that's crazy talk 😆

mudguard

2119 posts

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#2286244 31-Jul-2019 09:57

GV27:

I find the cycling debate tends to also be dominated by people who have the time, luxury or lifestyle that allows cycling; usually these aren't people going from one side of the city to the other every day for work. Just because some people can cycle from their 9-5 job in the CBD to their home in Freemans Bay doesn't mean they can expect everyone else to, even if there is some loftier reasoning behind it. No, I don't hate the climate, I just happen to work 30km from home.

For the vast majority of people it would involve a significant sacrifice in time and/or employment opportunities.

30km would be the upper limit for a pedal commute for me. Maybe on e-moto. But it depends on the infrastructure at work. A previous job had no shower but was about a 30 minute ride. So I'd drive Monday and Friday and take clothes in and back. Then do the awkward hand basin shower. Not ideal.

The next job was brilliant, showers, dedicated bike lock ups. Only problem was I was allocated a car park and company car and never was at the office!

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