RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › RUCs to apply to all vehicles (incl EVs), replacing road user tax on petrol

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#3401475 10-Aug-2025 14:39

Mehrts:

I'm happy that all vehicles will be charged the same rate to use the roads, instead of the current system which is all over the show depending what fuel is used.

The biggest benefit is those who use petrol for off-road use (lawn mowers, boats, dirt bikes etc) will now have cheaper fuel for those applications.

With all road-going vehicles being subject to RUC, it'll make EVs (once again) the cheapest form of transport to operate.

As raised earlier in the thread, it's kind of created a quirk, where currently, owning a thirsty vehicle was kind of self penalising. I realise the discussion is about road wear and tear, but fuel levy also had that benefit of those burning more fuel, paid for it. Whereas now it will go to a weight based system that will see most cars in the same bracket.

As others have mentioned, I've no doubt the price of petrol drop, but give it a year or two and it will have crept up again. It's simply the inelegance of the whole RUCs system I don't like. And you'll have a portion who aren't going to want any kind of remote monitoring. But thought of having to keep an eye kilometres is nauseating. I would mostly likely just try and pay for a year's worth and check annually.

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#3401523 10-Aug-2025 15:13

tweake:

Sidestep:

I'm using this overseas, in Canada. I just mentioned it as one way to remotely track road usage.
These tracking devices, in bulk, are quite inexpensive - I was told less than C$10ea.

I save around C$5K per year by having them installed.

so that probably means that system is subsidized by the Canada govt.

The retail price for one Bouncie appears to be around $90 (https://www.bouncie.com/pricing?st=q) with a $10/month subscription fee.

Scott3

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#3401524 10-Aug-2025 15:29

mattwnz:

The thing is that the current problem isn’t new in that smaller cars always paid less tax to use roads, due to using less fuel. The change means that there is less incentive to have a smaller more efficient vehicle. I highly doubt anyone is going to be paying less tax as a result of this and some will be paying a lot more. In the meantime our vehicle fleet will likely get older with less people buying EVs. I understand there has already been a big drop off in people buying them in New Zealand. Where elsewhere in the world they are being more popular

"I highly doubt anyone is going to be paying less tax as a result of this and some will be paying a lot more"

To get people to pay more on average is very much the point.

The current FED / RUC break even point is 9.5 L / 100 km. This is quite out of touch with the current petrol fleet.

A 2004 automatic 2.4L Camry (9.8 L/100km rating), that gets traded in for one of the latest ones (4.4L / 100km, Toyota NZ now only sells they hybrid version), means the government is loosing more than half it's FED revenue.

So change is needed, either a re-balancing of the breakeven point, from say 9.5L/100km to say 5 L/100km, which would mean FED jumps from 70c + GST / L to 133c + GST / L.

This has some serious issues, an that the family in polity who is running a 2004 camry (or an even thirstier toyota estima if they have 4 + kids), Now gets lumped with a massive cost increase, while the family a Late model Hybrid gets a much smaller increase and those running diesel / EV get no increase.

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"In the meantime our vehicle fleet will likely get older with less people buying EVs."

On fleet age, this has been trending up for a while, and no indication this will change. (especially as many of the cars coming up for retirement now are 1995 - 2005 Japanese cars, an era that is often viewed as the peak for durability.

On EV's, Currently EV owners are likely to be cross shopping with something like that hybrid camry. EV's getting charged double the road tax of that camry, which eats basically all of the EV cost savings of the EV on home charging (and makes the EV more expensive to run on public charging). And with no running cost saving's, many find it hard to justify the higher capital cost of EV's.

NZ's EV sales crash happened when concurrent: 1. Rebate was axed, 2. RUC exemption end date, and the EV rates became known, 3. Global economic situation was sour. Hard to break out the impact of each item, but I believe the RUC bit is a big part.

RUC's effectively killed small diesel's (think Polo bluemotion, swift diesel) in NZ. Knowing what we know now about urban air quality, that was a stroke of luck. However EV's are now feeling the same impact. Conversely they also killed larger petrol vehicles. Can't buy a petrol hilux / Hiace new in NZ. And also a big reason the Land cruiser 200 / 300 (which toyota only bothers to sell here as a diesel) massively outsells the Nissan Patrol Y62 (petrol).

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I understand there has already been a big drop off in people buying them in New Zealand. Where elsewhere in the world they are being more popular

Yip:

(note that a lot of dealerships resisted stock as demo's in the last few months of 2023, so they could claim the rebate. something that was allowed as long as they didn't sell for 3 months). So there was a flood of ex demo EV's, eroding new registrations in 2024, so the situation is a touch less bad that it looks).

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On people being better off after this change, there are a lot:

- Drivers of petrol cars that use over 9.5L/100km. Think V8's, and shitty old people movers.
- People who use petrol non-commercially off roads. Boating, Aviation, Lawn mowing, generators etc.
- Owners / Sellers of Small efficient Diesel / EV cars. They are will now be competing on an even tax basis, and hence be more attractive for buyers compared to say a Toyota aqua.

tweake

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#3401526 10-Aug-2025 15:42

mudguard:

I would mostly likely just try and pay for a year's worth and check annually.

thats roughly what most people tend to do. buy a big chunk every 6-12 months, or whenever vehicle gets serviced etc. that way your only paying one admin fee, not a monthly service fee for 12 months. just buy it online, it gets mailed to you. easy as. even easier if they don't require it to be displayed.

johno1234

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#3401543 10-Aug-2025 18:27

gzt: OBD2 one time read is ok. OBD2 plugged in all the time is not a great idea imo. Vehicle OBD and CAN bus is not designed for peripherals use imo in spite of the fact there are various drivetime accessory uses available. I'd be very reluctant to add an OBD drivetime device.

i accidentally left my wifi obd2 dongle plugged into our car for a couple of months. I had wondered if it would drain the battery but apparently not.

HarmLessSolutions

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#3401545 10-Aug-2025 18:50

gzt: OBD2 one time read is ok. OBD2 plugged in all the time is not a great idea imo. Vehicle OBD and CAN bus is not designed for peripherals use imo in spite of the fact there are various drivetime accessory uses available. I'd be very reluctant to add an OBD drivetime device.

I would suggest that a OBD2 dongle is only an interim strategy. Our Polestar2 is constantly aware of its location which can be called up via our phone app at any time. Surely not too difficult to access this online data stream for RUC purposes if requested.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

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#3401564 10-Aug-2025 21:16

Scott3:

(note that a lot of dealerships resisted stock as demo's in the last few months of 2023, so they could claim the rebate. something that was allowed as long as they didn't sell for 3 months). So there was a flood of ex demo EV's, eroding new registrations in 2024, so the situation is a touch less bad that it looks).

is it possible for a private new car buyer to claim this rebate?

HarmLessSolutions

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#3401565 10-Aug-2025 21:21

Batman:

Scott3:

(note that a lot of dealerships resisted stock as demo's in the last few months of 2023, so they could claim the rebate. something that was allowed as long as they didn't sell for 3 months). So there was a flood of ex demo EV's, eroding new registrations in 2024, so the situation is a touch less bad that it looks).

is it possible for a private new car buyer to claim this rebate?

Only if they were the first registered NZ owner. If the dealer had already registered the vehicle then that opportunity had already been taken.

https://www.harmlesssolutions.co.nz/

Batman

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#3401566 10-Aug-2025 21:35

HarmLessSolutions:

Batman:

is it possible for a private new car buyer to claim this rebate?

Only if they were the first registered NZ owner. If the dealer had already registered the vehicle then that opportunity had already been taken.

how do you claim this rebate if you were the first registered owner of an EV? is there a price limit?

Handle9

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#3401568 10-Aug-2025 21:41

Batman:

HarmLessSolutions:

Only if they were the first registered NZ owner. If the dealer had already registered the vehicle then that opportunity had already been taken.

how do you claim this rebate if you were the first registered owner of an EV? is there a price limit?

You go back in time to before the 31st of December 2023.

ANglEAUT

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#3405768 20-Aug-2025 08:29

Is Driving In New Zealand Getting Worse? (and how do we fix it?)

With speed limit reductions, potholes everywhere, aggressive action against speeding by police and now a new RUCs scheme, is New Zealand losing its status as the driving enthusiast heaven it was a decade ago?

Please keep this GZ community vibrant by contributing in a constructive & respectful manner.

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Scott3

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#3405828 20-Aug-2025 12:13

ANglEAUT:

Is Driving In New Zealand Getting Worse? (and how do we fix it?)

With speed limit reductions, potholes everywhere, aggressive action against speeding by police and now a new RUCs scheme, is New Zealand losing its status as the driving enthusiast heaven it was a decade ago?

That Person is so confidently wrong, over and over:

The comparison between Fuel tax and RUC, compares the GST exclusive value of fuel tax, with a GST inclusive value for RUC. Basically breaks all of the math's and graphs displayed based on this. Break even point is currently around 9.5 L/100km.
Incorrectly states that speed limit reductions made under the prior administration were "blanket", Ignoring that these were all done case by case basis by the relevant roading authority, with consultation etc. And it was the reversal that was blanket.
Incorrectly states that 70% of fatal crashes are due to speeding or driving drunk. Assume this was derived by adding together the percentage of crashes due to speeding (32% in 2015), and Alcohol & drugs (30.2% in 2015), with some rounding. Not a statically valid approach as the statistics allow multiple factors to be attributed. I.e. A driver can be both drunk and speeding. Also does not mention that speeding in NZ's crash statistics means "Too Fast for the Conditions", where he is using it to mean exceeding the speed limit.
Points to increasing road deaths from 2013 (and displays a graph ending in 2022), as evidence that the speed limit reductions were misguided. If I recall correctly the speed limits in my area were reduced in 2023, so outside this data set. (I have no evidence, but note the timing of this curve turning upwards aligns with smartphones becoming common)
States that the clean car discount was for wealthy people to buy EV's, ignoring that it had a price cap, and a decent chunk of the money went to people buying used Leaf's and Aquas arriving from Japan.
Something is wrong with the math's on truck damage and 4th powers. If a 25T truck has 8T loads over each of it's 3 axles, vs a car with 1T loads on each of two axles, the truck is doing 6000x the damage, not 256x.
Stated that the government has decided that it needs to raise more money to get the standard of driving back to where it was 10 years ago. There does not seem to be any basis for this statement, Government statements have largely indicated RUC change is to prevent eroding revenue in the land transport fund. I have not heard of any proposals to increase the standard of driving (more training or testing) - In contrast halving the number of practical tests is proposed as part of our drivers licensing system.
Mentions GPS trackers, including automated speeding detection - I have not seen any suggestion this will be required.

Some items are less clear cut:

States police are aggressively policing speed on motorways etc. - Enforcement seems lax compared to Aust, Europe etc is my take.
Seems to have missed that the RUC policy is not an emissions reduction policy. A lot of his effort designing alternate systems try to bake an emissions reduction element into the scheme. We already have Emissions charges built into our fuels, giving the same emissions reduction incentive to a driver as say a gas patio heater user, or a giant coal burning diary factory... There is an argument that Light vehicles are a low hanging fruit, and should carry more Burdon than giant dairy factories which are big export earners of course, but this is a big topic in its own right.
NZ has used cheap chip seal for all my life. Not really loved by anybody, but can't be a recent change.
States that the current government inherited pot hole ridden roads etc. While true, that blame for this needs to be shared by both the previous administration, and the one before that. Under the Period where Steven Joyce and Gerry Brownlee being transport Minister's, NZ had a deliberate strategy to decrease spend on road maintenance, and funnel money towards the RONS road building program. With long timeline projects like this, the next administration is largely stuck with the decision's of the prior administration (unless they are willing to waste hundreds of millions of dollars). Inherent to this approve is we now have some sweet new roads (quite fond of the Waterview tunnel myself), but generally lower levels of maintenance.

Some points are valid:

The Clean Car Discount was poorly designed, as it was meant to be be self funding, but actually ended up being a massive net subsidy for new to NZ car buyers. (a small portion of this was due to the Rebate starting 6 months prior to the fee, but the main cause was it had NZ swung to clean cars much more aggressively than expected and the scheme only did not have a means to quickly rebalance rates to account for this change).
General standards of driver training and testing are comically low compared to say the aviation industry, given the risks involved in driving.
Having less trucks on the roads would be nice

My take (as somebody who likes car's, but does not consider themselves an enthusiast):

NZ is still a good place for car enthusiasts:
- We still have one of the more diverse ranges of car's available of anywhere in the world:
  - NZ New market of cars is highly diverse.
    - Stuff people in the USA want, but can't have: Hilux, Hiace, Landcruiser 70, Landcruiser 300, Suzuki Jiminy
    - Wide range of Japanese cars
    - Wide range of euro cars
    - Wide range of Thai Built utes & off road SUV's
    - Wide Range or Korean cars
    - Medium range of Chinese cars (BYD & MG most notable at the moment. Zeekr expected to arrive this year)
    - Narrow range of American Cars. Jeeps, Ford Mustang etc.
  - Everything JDM (of an era that meets modern emissions / crash standards, or is older than 20 years), via common used import channels.
  - Aussie cars (now used only): Falcon, Commodore, Holden ute etc.
  - Basically anything modern and euro not sold here can be imported from the UK
  - Specialist LHD American cars (Dodge Challenger) are possible to import and get a permit to drive.
  - Large American Pickup's & SUV's (Dodge Ram, GMC Yukon Denali etc), available with factory backed RHD conversions. - but very expensive.
LVV process allows scratch built and heavily modified vehicles a pathway to being road legal - Know a person with a road legal car with a stripped interior, full cage etc, and another that swapped a high power engine into toyota startlet.
Both 4x4 tracks and Race tracks that allow track days are fairly accessible (depending on where you live).
Low population density, and vast number of twisty roads mean it is not too difficult to find scenic locations for spirited driving.
Tar roads are generally nicer to drive on than concrete roads found in the likes of Asia, California.
ACC being run by the government, removing the need for third party injury insurance, means it is actually attainable for young people to own high performance cars in NZ. In the UK it would be cripplingly expensive to insure (manditory) say a WRX STI as a 20 year old...
No P plate limits like Australia.
Relatively high percentage of housing having garaging relative to international norms

On the negative side:

Chip seal
The cool American car's are often very expensive here.
Relatively low speed limits compared to other locations
Policing is stricter than the USA (but less strict then Europe & Aust)
Standard of driving is often lower than that Australia
Being RHD, does has in impact on selection (other than stuff exotic enough to get a permit for, or expensive enough to justify a conversion). No Ford Maverick, Ford Bronco, Toyota Sequoia, Toyota Grand Highlander etc.

Being a car enthusiast seems to becoming less interesting globally, and NZ is no exception:

The rise of the soft SUV, as Coupes / sedans / hatches becoming much less popular.
In general the JDM performance scene is in decline.
General move away from RWD and Manual. Stuff like the toyota AE86 use to be fairly cheap and available. These days finding a manual RWD that is relatively lightweight, not thrashed, and relatively affordable is more challenging.
Cars becoming more complex, computerized etc, making engine modifications more expensive.
Cost of living increasing, Cars generally getting bigger, more expensive, more powerful, meaning the cost in tires, breaks etc of doing track days is going up.
Insurance generally going up.
General performance of cars has got to a point where the incentive to modify is a lot lower. These days, anybody with $55k can walk into Tristram MG, and drive away in a brand new MG4 x power, a car which does 0-100 in 3.8s.
EV's. Now I love EV's, but many enthusiasts do not. The combination of having limited attainable modification pathway's (other than interior strips), and the tech moving so fast that they are not collectable, and the lack of noise makes them less attractive. But they are also soaking up a lot of new car buyers who are looking for performance & RWD, eroding the supply of ICE performance cars to enthusiasts that tend to buy used in 5 years time.
Regulatory framework is tightening. Burnouts & unnecessary exhibition of speed or acceleration is now illegal in NZ.
In general people are becoming more risk adverse. The reckless stuff that was common in my youth has (thankfully) become less socially accepted. The widespread presence of phone camera's and dash cam's, increase the risk to those associated with street racing etc.

And in terms of what the government can do to make things better for car enthusiast's in NZ:

Main thing would be a focus on better road surface quality. Chip seal wears tires quickly, has less grip, and the stones result in cars being covered in paint chips...
The move to RUC on all vehicles should be good for car enthusiast, most of whom I suspect use more than 9.5L/100km in the real world.

Benoire

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#3405861 20-Aug-2025 15:44

Scott3:

And in terms of what the government can do to make things better for car enthusiast's in NZ:

Main thing would be a focus on better road surface quality. Chip seal wears tires quickly, has less grip, and the stones result in cars being covered in paint chips...
The move to RUC on all vehicles should be good for car enthusiast, most of whom I suspect use more than 9.5L/100km in the real world.

Unfortunately this will not happen. RCA funding has been effectively cut and councils are being asked to sweat their local road assets even more due to cost. We have established that for Auckland, that even with our high tonnage of asphalt usage, that chipseal is 2x cheaper than asphalt over the design period of the road pavement and that doesn't include the fact that the road pavement for asphalt has to be thicker and more robust with a higher CBR to avoid rutting and fatigue failure... so if Auckland cannot find the economy of scale to make this work then no one else will in NZ!

mattwnz

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#3405862 20-Aug-2025 15:54

From that video it confirmed to me that trucks are a big problem when it comes to pot holes and road damage and premature wear. But it failed to mention that the trucks are now heavier after changes National did last time they were in government. Trucks don’t seem to be paying their fair share. We need to get more of the road and onto rail. But rail options in NZ are poor and not helped by many routes being closed. Reducing the max weight of trucks may help

Benoire

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#3405863 20-Aug-2025 15:58

mattwnz:

From that video it confirmed to me that trucks are a big problem when it comes to pot holes and road damage and premature wear. But it failed to mention that the trucks are now heavier after changes National did last time they were in government. Trucks don’t seem to be paying their fair share. We need to get more of the road and onto rail. But rail options in NZ are poor and not helped by many routes being closed. Reducing the max weight of trucks may help

It is trucks and M/HCVs that cause the damage. Cars generally cause little pavement damage and just wear out the surface over time which is easy to fix... pavement rehabilitation and repairs are where the costs go!

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