EV (electric vehicle) News and Discussion

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#2044006 26-Jun-2018 11:35

Batman: Watching one of those natural disaster movies reminding me of the earthquakes. Do tesla power the chargers during these events?

Some of the Tesla Superchargers have solar backup to the grid.....so the batteries on-site can be charged up even during brown-outs / cuts (daytime). But none of the ones in NZ do.

They may be able to charge cars if the grid is down but the Supercharger batteries are still charged. But I don't know.

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Krishant007

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#2044009 26-Jun-2018 11:45

I am sure this has been covered somewhere in the 99 pages of posts:

I recently had a discussion with my brother in law who (is a car mechanic) was telling me that electric cars are not all that, meaning they are not the 100% clean vehicle of the future. They still have carbon emissions (with some countries generating electricity using fossil fuels still - USA is the big one i guess). And the impact of lithium ion batteries, mining them and disposing them has a significant impact on the planet.

Now I am all for electric cars, I believe they are the way of the future. With help of renewable energies, safer mining, and proper recycling and handling of batteries, we can make our Utopia.

Even without utopia, I still feel that electric cars are better than petrol cars. I know this purely because, the amount of energy it takes to power and electric car is still efficient when it comes to regular motor vehicles because there is just a lot more wastage during combustion (heat, friction and noise would be the big ones i guess).

Does anyone know of, or have any recent study or scientific resources they can share which talks about the issues mentioned above?

SaltyNZ

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#2044015 26-Jun-2018 11:56

Krishant007:

I am sure this has been covered somewhere in the 99 pages of posts:

I recently had a discussion with my brother in law who (is a car mechanic) was telling me that electric cars are not all that, meaning they are not the 100% clean vehicle of the future. They still have carbon emissions (with some countries generating electricity using fossil fuels still - USA is the big one i guess). And the impact of lithium ion batteries, mining them and disposing them has a significant impact on the planet.

Now I am all for electric cars, I believe they are the way of the future. With help of renewable energies, safer mining, and proper recycling and handling of batteries, we can make our Utopia.

Even without utopia, I still feel that electric cars are better than petrol cars. I know this purely because, the amount of energy it takes to power and electric car is still efficient when it comes to regular motor vehicles because there is just a lot more wastage during combustion (heat, friction and noise would be the big ones i guess).

Does anyone know of, or have any recent study or scientific resources they can share which talks about the issues mentioned above?

There was a quite recent study on the climate impact of electric cars on a region of northern China which took into account the sources of grid power, different classes of electric vehicle, and the different types of charging stations available. Your brother in law is correct inasmuch as if your electricity comes from coal then you have not offset as much carbon as you might otherwise want, but in New Zealand, around 85% of our electricity comes from renewables - hydro, wind, solar, geothermal - and so switching to electric on balance means you can expect your energy to be on the order of 85% clean rather than 100% dirty.

The way you charge also has an impact as fast chargers are vastly less efficient than slow chargers for two reasons - firstly, the I2R losses are far higher leading to more energy directly wasted, and secondly because fast chargers are used more often during peak energy use which can require the grid to call fast-reacting generation capacity into service. At present that mostly means gas turbines which can start and stop in minutes vs. more efficient thermal sources which takes hours to ramp up or down. Slow chargers, on the other hand, can be served overnight with base load generators that will be running regardless.

Finally, the electric vehicle drive train is so much more efficient than the internal combustion engine drive train that even if your electricity is dirty, you're probably still somewhat better off overall. One coal plant can be scrubbed much cleaner than a million small engines.

However one thing he is wrong about is the batteries. Yes, it's true that the lithium in them has to be mined. But once they wear out they should not be disposed of but instead can be infinitely recycled, unlike say, the oil which also has to be mined but once it's burned is gone forever.

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Linuxluver

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#2044063 26-Jun-2018 12:54

Krishant007:

I am sure this has been covered somewhere in the 99 pages of posts:

I recently had a discussion with my brother in law who (is a car mechanic) was telling me that electric cars are not all that, meaning they are not the 100% clean vehicle of the future. They still have carbon emissions (with some countries generating electricity using fossil fuels still - USA is the big one i guess). And the impact of lithium ion batteries, mining them and disposing them has a significant impact on the planet.

Now I am all for electric cars, I believe they are the way of the future. With help of renewable energies, safer mining, and proper recycling and handling of batteries, we can make our Utopia.

Even without utopia, I still feel that electric cars are better than petrol cars. I know this purely because, the amount of energy it takes to power and electric car is still efficient when it comes to regular motor vehicles because there is just a lot more wastage during combustion (heat, friction and noise would be the big ones i guess).

Does anyone know of, or have any recent study or scientific resources they can share which talks about the issues mentioned above?

Your brother in law has been exposed to propaganda paid for by the billionaire Koch Brothers in the US who own a lot of oil reifining cpacity and pipelines.

The bottom line is that EVs don't emit carbon. Even if they use electricity from coal, they are so much more efficient than petrol engines that, overall, emissions are still lower. SatlyNZ gave you a link to one study that shows this.

The other point about Lithium is that is mainly "mined" by evaporating brine to allow lithium to extracted. Lithium is abundant in sea water, too. Lithium can be re-cycled forever......it doesn't wear out. You just extract it from the old batteries and make new ones. It's the chemistry that gets tired....not the elements in the chemistry.

The vested interests in the fossil fuel industry are spreading all kinds of false information and are using many of the same methods - and people - used by the tobacco industry for years to create 'doubt' their products were deadly. The same people have been denying climate change, too...and for the same reasons.

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SaltyNZ

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#2044105 26-Jun-2018 13:47

And for those who don't want to pay $22 to read the original paper, Ars Technica discusses it well.

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kingdragonfly

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#2044882 27-Jun-2018 17:12

I had a friend make me aware of the following.

I didn't realise Tesla gave owners free 3G data plans. Now they're asking for owners to pay for premium 4G data plans at only US$100/year. That's pretty darn good. Tesla is still absorbing some of the costs. I wonder what the NZ situation is. Unlimited data plans are very expensive here.

The host of this show says she's paying US$20/mth for her unlimited GM Bolt data plan, which isn't too bad either.

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#2044982 27-Jun-2018 20:18

Linuxluver:
GV27:

I keep looking at well-sorted kit car products and thinking about what the options might be for building straight to EV. Many are classic shapes and in some cases, lightweight tubular chassis. Owning a toy becomes a much more interest proposition if the running costs become effectively just an insurance cost.

The Gold Star will go to the person who works out how to do bespoke conversions to electric of beloved ICE cars for something resembling decent range and a reasonable price.

If you had a 1950s hotrod would you pay - say - $20,000 to convert it to an EV with reliable 300km range? If not that much, how much?

I'm well aware people mad about their cars will spend enormous sums on cosmetic changes and changes that might enhance performance slightly......so what about a complete refresh? A heart transplant?

How would you make it sound right?

MikeB4

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#2044986 27-Jun-2018 20:25

Geektastic:
Linuxluver:

GV27:

I keep looking at well-sorted kit car products and thinking about what the options might be for building straight to EV. Many are classic shapes and in some cases, lightweight tubular chassis. Owning a toy becomes a much more interest proposition if the running costs become effectively just an insurance cost.

The Gold Star will go to the person who works out how to do bespoke conversions to electric of beloved ICE cars for something resembling decent range and a reasonable price.

If you had a 1950s hotrod would you pay - say - $20,000 to convert it to an EV with reliable 300km range? If not that much, how much?

I'm well aware people mad about their cars will spend enormous sums on cosmetic changes and changes that might enhance performance slightly......so what about a complete refresh? A heart transplant?

How would you make it sound right?

Easy, a good set of Bang and Olufsens

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

kingdragonfly

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#2045029 27-Jun-2018 21:35

CNN didn't really mention that this is an electric vehicle.

20KWH battery, can cruise for about an hour on a charge. Very little noise, or wake.

GV27

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#2047019 1-Jul-2018 20:15

Coupla interesting things from this weekend:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180629-sichuan.html

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/06/20180630arl.html

There may be a way to go before we get a proper next-gen battery but sometimes you have to tock before you can tick again.

kingdragonfly

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#2047352 2-Jul-2018 11:38

Fastest car ever at Pike's Peak … and it's electric!

670 hp
480 lb-ft (650 Nm)
1,095 kilos
100 km/h in just 2.25 seconds

Pikes Peak starts at 2,862 metres above sea level, 1,440 vertical metres of climbing, 156 corners, 100 percent asphalt, and just one single attempt

Samsung

Shop now on Samsung phones, tablets, TVs and more (affiliate link).

kingdragonfly

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#2047361 2-Jul-2018 11:49

Pikes Peak VW ID R Track Record Run With Finish Line Interview

MikeAqua

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#2049483 5-Jul-2018 09:52

The Wellington council is planning to build between 25 and 34 charging stations, in locations where it's impractical for people to charge cars from their houses (terrain, distance from road etc). There are submissions from 80 people already saying 'outside my house'.

They are talking about two car medium-speed charging stations which will be a shared resource. Will be interesting to see how competition for overnight charging pans out.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/105229313/innercity-wellington-suburbs-in-line-for-more-than-25-electric-vehicle-charging-ports

Mike

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#2049780 5-Jul-2018 13:26

plod:

Fully Charged is an excellent car show mainly on EV and tech related to it. The man from red dwarf hosts it. His name escapes me.

If you like Fully Charged you should check out our podcast. it's call NZ EV Podcast. We release our eps weekly now. Robert Llewellyn is the host's name on Fully Charged. Funny guy! I'm trying to interview him on our podcast.

kingdragonfly

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#2049994 5-Jul-2018 17:44

https://www.podcasts.nz/nz-ev-podcast/

@NZEVPodcast you may want to consider freebie speech-to-text for your podcast, to make it more search friendly: Google Docs Voice Typing (GDVT) or Windows Speech Recognition (WSR).

Regarding your last podcast, and the origins of autonomous vehicle, guerilla tactics played great part in the US conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Many in the military still die from improvised explosive devices, IED, from unexploded ordnance guerillas recover and use against trucks.

This is the reason DARPA sponsored a contest in 2005: trucks are expendable but people, not so much.

https://www.embeddedrelated.com/showarticle/963.php

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