Why can nobody make a new Mini?

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toyonut

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# 175208 21-Jun-2015 20:11

I have been thinking about this a bit, and I am struggling to see why not. Why can nobody make a new Mini? I'm not talking about the BMW maxi marketing and design exercise, but a properly good small car. Everything seems to be getting bigger, cars that were smaller 10 years ago like the corolla and civic are now much bigger and finding themselves in the mid size segment. The Swift is probably the one car that has not really gotten hugely bigger with each generation.
So far as I can see, there has never been a true successor to the original Mini though. Surely it must be possible to make a truly compact 1000-1300cc car that can seat four with a small boot space and a design that minimizes empty cavities so the interior space is maximized. It must be possible with modern tech to make such a design safe too.
Am I crazy in thinking this, or is a true Mini never coming back and why not?

Try Vultr using this link and get us both some credit:

http://www.vultr.com/?ref=7033587-3B

Smithy100

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# 1328820 21-Jun-2015 20:19

The main difference besides technological advances is that passenger and pedestrian safety standards being substantially different to what they were in the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Having said that, a Fiat 500 and a smart Four Two are pretty blinkin' small, as is a VW Up! (and it's Skoda equivalent). So yeah, they exist but there's a limited market for them here in NZ due to cost I guess... There's a whole class of car in Japan that are all pretty tiny too (Kei cars) but again, they don't work in NZ or Aus.

I've just waffled a completely contradictory response but there you go.

Inphinity

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# 1328822 21-Jun-2015 20:24

Mostly to do with safety regulations, emissions, feature expectations etc these days. That said, the first gen Smart ForTwo is 1510mm wide, 2500mm long and 1500mm high, whereas the original style Mini was, I believe, 1410mm wide, 3050mm long and 1350mm high. So the ForTwo is only marginally wider and taller, and is not as long (though is a 2-seater in it's smaller formfactor). Until recently, Mitsubishi were producing the i, which is 1475mm wide, 3395mm long, and 1600mm high in a full 4-door body style. Suzuki's Alto is another that isn't huge. But materials nad manufacturing processes are nowhere close to being able to replicate the design ideas of the Mini without it still being a deathtrap by modern standards. You'll note your examples like the Corolla and Civic, while now finding themesllves in more of a mid-size fclass, are no longer the entry models in their lineup - the Jazz now comes in below the Civic, and the Yaris below the Corolla.

nathan

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Microsoft

# 1328827 21-Jun-2015 20:36

having a head on or t bone in a Fiat 500 is not going to be a happy place

oxnsox

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# 1328846 21-Jun-2015 21:16

Suzuki Celerio? ( 3 Cylinder 1000cc replacement for Alto)
Featured in Motoring section of Stuff this weekend. Wrter had some Mini comparisons in there... better than sum of its parts.

mudguard

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# 1328939 22-Jun-2015 05:29

Honda S660 is due out next year. 660c in Japan, likely to be 1L here.

rokki

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# 1328940 22-Jun-2015 05:39

paulmilbank: I have been thinking about this a bit, and I am struggling to see why not. Why can nobody make a new Mini? I'm not talking about the BMW maxi marketing and design exercise, but a properly good small car. Everything seems to be getting bigger, cars that were smaller 10 years ago like the corolla and civic are now much bigger and finding themselves in the mid size segment. The Swift is probably the one car that has not really gotten hugely bigger with each generation.
So far as I can see, there has never been a true successor to the original Mini though. Surely it must be possible to make a truly compact 1000-1300cc car that can seat four with a small boot space and a design that minimizes empty cavities so the interior space is maximized. It must be possible with modern tech to make such a design safe too.
Am I crazy in thinking this, or is a true Mini never coming back and why not?

Hi have you had a look at the New Mazda 2 , Honda Jazz both are exceptional cars in their own way.

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robjg63

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# 1328958 22-Jun-2015 07:52

oxnsox: Suzuki Celerio? ( 3 Cylinder 1000cc replacement for Alto)
Featured in Motoring section of Stuff this weekend. Wrter had some Mini comparisons in there... better than sum of its parts.

Yep.
I had one of the nz built Suzuki altos in the 80s. I remember it was about 18 months old in a dealers yard and I took it for a test drive. Took my dad with me. He didn't say a thing right until the end. Then he looked at me and said - I thought you were crazy even wanting to take this for a drive, but its amazing!
I am 6'3" and it had plenty of head room. Used hardly any petrol. Had a 3 cylinder 800cc engine that produced more power than the 1275 mini that was still available back then. It also had 4doors and a higher top speed than the mini apparently.

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

D1023319

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# 1328959 22-Jun-2015 07:54

Nissan March is a good tiny car with 5 doors.
I bought the 1500 cc CVT for my daughter but i have found it very functional with a tight turning circle.
There are lots out there so parts are no issue.

dwl

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# 1328967 22-Jun-2015 08:32

oxnsox: Suzuki Celerio? ( 3 Cylinder 1000cc replacement for Alto)
Featured in Motoring section of Stuff this weekend. Wrter had some Mini comparisons in there... better than sum of its parts.

I agree this seems to fit with mention of Tardis in the article. The writer is 1.88m tall and had no problems fitting. We got our first Mini in 1961 and the space inside was amazing for the outside dimensions.

Hopefully will be free from the wet distributor and leaking seal onto the clutch problems suffered from the original. Ours even had the added bonus of floor rusting (when not that old) and the back seat support dropping through.

toyonut

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# 1329003 22-Jun-2015 09:15

I'm a big fan of the Jazz and it makes use of space in amazing ways, but even then, it is no Mini. I have driven the Mazda 2 and I don't like it as much. Its not bad, but it just didn't grab me.
Was doing some googling and found this and this. Looks like BMW may actually be making a smaller Mini after all. No doubt, it won't capture the price of the original, but it looks a lot closer to the size of the original compared to the current one. There may even be a new Starlet based on the same platform, which is another small car I have fond memories of. I am unsure why I have good memories of it, mine was terrible, but it was my first car. I still want a turbo Starlet despite the fact it is impossible to find a good one these days. I was even a fan of the Daihatsu Mira sport and especially liked the Daihatsu Charade DeTomaso.
The little Celerio looks neat.

Try Vultr using this link and get us both some credit:

http://www.vultr.com/?ref=7033587-3B

jonb

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# 1329044 22-Jun-2015 09:54

There are lots of cars like this in Europe, but they're generally not imported into NZ in significant numbers, e.g the Volkswagon Up isn't imported by Volkswagon NZ. This could be for similar reasons that most of the small cars sold in NZ come with larger minimum engine size than the equivalent in Europe, the market in NZ/Aus is generally bigger cars.

dwl

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# 1329090 22-Jun-2015 10:51

Kerb weight empty was another difference with the original. Looking at some of the suggestions and taking the lighter options (e.g. less options, take only as rough guide):

Mini 1959-2000 - 617-686 kg
Suzuki Celerion - 855 kg
Mazda 2 - 1038 kg
Honda Jazz (Fit) - 1070 kg
Nissan Micra - 960 kg
VW Up - 929 kg

Carrying around an extra 74-225 kg compared to Celerion and up to 453kg compared to original is an overhead. Obviously safety is big issue and we hope the use of high tensile, intrusion bars and crush zones should mean any option had adequate crash rating.

afe66

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# 1329181 22-Jun-2015 12:28

I learnt to drive in 1984 Suzuki Alto GL in the 80's.
Great fun.
Top speed 132 kph
Most teenagers on board 10....
Slithered up many a ski access road

But worried what wood happen if I hit anything bigger than a hedgehog...

A.