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timmmay

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#233447 16-Apr-2018 20:18
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Has anyone done / found a financial analysis of the cost of ownership of an electric car like the Nissan Leaf vs the cost of a comparable petrol car?


It would have to take into account car price, price of putting in whatever power outlet or charging facility is required, power price, petrol price, distance driven each day, battery replacement cost if required, depreciation, and probably other things.


I'd like an electric car, but I suspect even though I drive 25km per day and range is unlikely to be an issue a moderate priced petrol car would be cheaper.


Most interested in an imported used vehicle.

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  #1997296 16-Apr-2018 20:46
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cant buy a leaf new in nz so not a very good car for a comparison.


 
 
 
 

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timmmay

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  #1997307 16-Apr-2018 20:58
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Jase2985:

cant buy a leaf new in nz so not a very good car for a comparison.



Prefer used for a runabout.

DataCraft
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  #1997323 16-Apr-2018 21:45
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EECA has a tool you can use - its designed for business users but very useful

 

 

 

https://www.eecabusiness.govt.nz/tools/vehicle-total-cost-of-ownership-tool/




frankv
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  #1997577 17-Apr-2018 09:54
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https://www.engineering.com/Portals/0/Stories/-36033/EV%20Total%20Cost%20of%20Ownership%20Analysis.xlsx

 

American default values.

 

I downloaded it and plugged in what I thought would be fairly appropriate...

 

Purchase Price: is based on second-hand cars advertised on TradeMe. I didn't add in anything for getting 3-phase power to my garage.

 

Resale price: Who knows? Just write the cars off after 5 years.

 

Fuel costs: is 30c/KWh, 24KWh battery, 135km for Leaf,  $2/L, 10L/100km for Corolla

 

Total distance: 5 years at 20,000/year

 

Borrowed amount: The entire purchase price in both cases

 

Interest rate: 5.65% offered by Kiwibank Home loan over 4 years

 

Insurance cost: I couldn't be bothered getting prices, so I arbitrarily used the total cost of each vehicle, just because the template did that.

 

Maintenance & Repairs: I just accepted the default $7000 value for the ICE. Who knows how realistic that is? From that, I subracted 10 (1 per 10,000km) oil changes at $100 each to get the EV maintenance cost. Probably I should also subtract spark plugs and some other stuff.

 

Subsidies: I didn't explicitly include the free RUC currently available for EVs, and just assume that those continue for the next 5 years.

 

Click to see full size

 

 

 

 


MikeAqua
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  #1997591 17-Apr-2018 10:00
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FWIW IRD rate the per km cost marginally higher for hybrid/EV than a petrol/diesel vehicle.

 

http://www.ird.govt.nz/technical-tax/op-statements/os-review-mileage-rate-2017.html





Mike


timmmay

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  #1997593 17-Apr-2018 10:01
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Interesting, thanks all. I'll have a go at this later.

 

@frankv I would use more like $15K for each vehicle, to get a reasonably modern vehicle, and for me I'd reduce the KMs driven. Useful spreadsheet though.


frankv
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  #1997699 17-Apr-2018 11:45
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The spreadsheet I linked above looks to be based on https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2210539516000043 which has some interesting comments in the first couple of pages on factors in vehicle purchase decisions and their effect on EV take-up.

 

@timmay Yeah. I know I'm comparing a 2006 Corolla with a 2011 Leaf. But I wouldn't buy a $15,000 Corolla (or whatever) anyway, because TCO is much higher, mainly driven by the higher purchase price and therefore greater depreciation and insurance costs (offset somewhat by lower maintenance).

 

To me, the interesting question is, what ICEV has equivalent TCO to the cheapest EV? And it looks to be somewhere around a 2005 Corolla.

 

If your price point is $35K/5yrs, then if you're Greener (or want to appear Greener), or perhaps more of a risk-taker, or a tech junkie, you'll buy the Leaf. If you're more conservative, you'll buy the 2005 Corolla. If you're too poor to afford a 2005 Corolla, you'll buy some other ICEV, because you can't afford any EV.

 

At higher price points, you have other choices between better EVs and better ICEVs. If you're richer and Greener, you'll buy a newer EV. If you're richer and conservative, you'll buy a Merc.

 

 




timmmay

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  #1997732 17-Apr-2018 12:18
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Personally I already have a 2003 Corolla, which is fine, but I'd like something less than 5 years old to have newer safety features. I'd probably go Nissan as they seem good quality but cheaper.

 

I wouldn't write off the car value after 5 years, but I would take into account the cost of replacing the battery pack.


Linuxluver
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  #1997734 17-Apr-2018 12:19
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DataCraft:

 

EECA has a tool you can use - its designed for business users but very useful

 

https://www.eecabusiness.govt.nz/tools/vehicle-total-cost-of-ownership-tool/

 

 

The tool seems to favour petrol cars (Mazda 3) because it rates cost of sevicing for 3 years at $0 while loading $858 onto the LEAF. The cost of petrol it defaults to $1.85/L for 91 while the cost I see around my house is $2.03. 

They use a 13c / kWh which is fair.....but there are cheaper rates available. 

Plus it's a new petrol car and only over 3 years. Petrol cars tend to start falling apart after that. LEAFs don't. 






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clevedon
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  #1997741 17-Apr-2018 12:34
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Linuxluver:

Plus it's a new petrol car and only over 3 years. Petrol cars tend to start falling apart after that. 

 

 

What a load of rubbish.

 

 

 

 


Dingbatt
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  #1997748 17-Apr-2018 12:49
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Linuxluver: The cost of petrol it defaults to $1.85/L for 91 while the cost I see around my house $2.03


Going to be $2.25/l round there parts very soon. Thanks Jacinda!




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


plod
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  #1997788 17-Apr-2018 13:15
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Linuxluver:

DataCraft:


EECA has a tool you can use - its designed for business users but very useful


https://www.eecabusiness.govt.nz/tools/vehicle-total-cost-of-ownership-tool/



The tool seems to favour petrol cars (Mazda 3) because it rates cost of sevicing for 3 years at $0 while loading $858 onto the LEAF. The cost of petrol it defaults to $1.85/L for 91 while the cost I see around my house is $2.03. 

They use a 13c / kWh which is fair.....but there are cheaper rates available. 

Plus it's a new petrol car and only over 3 years. Petrol cars tend to start falling apart after that. LEAFs don't. 


10 year old corolla. 210000km. Just replaced rear brake pads. Not sure if they have been done before. Still original clutch. I’m confident I’ll get to 300000km in it. So hardly falling apart. Oh replaces the original battery in it when it was 8 years old.

cruxis
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  #1997799 17-Apr-2018 13:29
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Would costs come down if you do the basic maintenance yourself ? Like Change Fluids, Spark plugs, filters, brake pads, Shocks, CV joints. How DIY friendly are EV cars when the maintenance times come around, are replacement parts even found at Supercheap Auto for them yet. 

 

Although quality tools can be a bit of a investment. Are battery packs Home DIY replaceable on current builds of EV cars?


jaymz
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  #1997828 17-Apr-2018 14:10
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Linuxluver:

Plus it's a new petrol car and only over 3 years. Petrol cars tend to start falling apart after that. LEAFs don't. 

 

I hope you had your flame suit on for that comment! haha - it was guaranteed to upset people!

 

Back on topic, I don't think there will ever be an accurate comparison between the two technologies, due to the complexities in various vehicle makes and models.

 

I found this on a blog post which raises some good questions:

 

 

 

  • Maintenance and repair:

     

    • If it’s a while between uses of the car, will the batteries drain?
    • How long are the engines/batteries predicted to last, and how does this compare to a petrol/diesel engine?
    • How expensive are the batteries to replace? Will this negate the benefit of the cars being cheaper to run?
    • How regularly do they need to be serviced and how much will this cost?
    • What happens if the car breaks down? Do break down companies know how to fix electric cars?
    • Are the chances of break-down and the cost of repair the same, better or worse than a conventional car? Will these cars suffer higher breakdown frequencies and repair costs from having more complex electronics in them?

 

 

 


mattwnz
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  #1997833 17-Apr-2018 14:14
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Are you wanting to factor in putting in 3 phase power, if you  want to charge it faster?


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