Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




13749 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2392

Trusted
Subscriber

Topic # 233447 16-Apr-2018 20:18
Send private message quote this post

Has anyone done / found a financial analysis of the cost of ownership of an electric car like the Nissan Leaf vs the cost of a comparable petrol car?


It would have to take into account car price, price of putting in whatever power outlet or charging facility is required, power price, petrol price, distance driven each day, battery replacement cost if required, depreciation, and probably other things.


I'd like an electric car, but I suspect even though I drive 25km per day and range is unlikely to be an issue a moderate priced petrol car would be cheaper.


Most interested in an imported used vehicle.




AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer


View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3
7432 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2384

Subscriber

  Reply # 1997296 16-Apr-2018 20:46
Send private message quote this post

cant buy a leaf new in nz so not a very good car for a comparison.




13749 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2392

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1997307 16-Apr-2018 20:58
Send private message quote this post

Jase2985:

cant buy a leaf new in nz so not a very good car for a comparison.



Prefer used for a runabout.




AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer


 
 
 
 


Try Wrike: fast, easy, and efficient project collaboration software
162 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 5


  Reply # 1997323 16-Apr-2018 21:45
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

EECA has a tool you can use - its designed for business users but very useful

 

 

 

https://www.eecabusiness.govt.nz/tools/vehicle-total-cost-of-ownership-tool/


2255 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1078


  Reply # 1997577 17-Apr-2018 09:54
Send private message quote this post

https://www.engineering.com/Portals/0/Stories/-36033/EV%20Total%20Cost%20of%20Ownership%20Analysis.xlsx

 

American default values.

 

I downloaded it and plugged in what I thought would be fairly appropriate...

 

Purchase Price: is based on second-hand cars advertised on TradeMe. I didn't add in anything for getting 3-phase power to my garage.

 

Resale price: Who knows? Just write the cars off after 5 years.

 

Fuel costs: is 30c/KWh, 24KWh battery, 135km for Leaf,  $2/L, 10L/100km for Corolla

 

Total distance: 5 years at 20,000/year

 

Borrowed amount: The entire purchase price in both cases

 

Interest rate: 5.65% offered by Kiwibank Home loan over 4 years

 

Insurance cost: I couldn't be bothered getting prices, so I arbitrarily used the total cost of each vehicle, just because the template did that.

 

Maintenance & Repairs: I just accepted the default $7000 value for the ICE. Who knows how realistic that is? From that, I subracted 10 (1 per 10,000km) oil changes at $100 each to get the EV maintenance cost. Probably I should also subtract spark plugs and some other stuff.

 

Subsidies: I didn't explicitly include the free RUC currently available for EVs, and just assume that those continue for the next 5 years.

 

Click to see full size

 

 

 

 


3989 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1571


  Reply # 1997591 17-Apr-2018 10:00
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

FWIW IRD rate the per km cost marginally higher for hybrid/EV than a petrol/diesel vehicle.

 

http://www.ird.govt.nz/technical-tax/op-statements/os-review-mileage-rate-2017.html





Mike



13749 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2392

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1997593 17-Apr-2018 10:01
Send private message quote this post

Interesting, thanks all. I'll have a go at this later.

 

@frankv I would use more like $15K for each vehicle, to get a reasonably modern vehicle, and for me I'd reduce the KMs driven. Useful spreadsheet though.





AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer


2255 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1078


  Reply # 1997699 17-Apr-2018 11:45
Send private message quote this post

The spreadsheet I linked above looks to be based on https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2210539516000043 which has some interesting comments in the first couple of pages on factors in vehicle purchase decisions and their effect on EV take-up.

 

@timmay Yeah. I know I'm comparing a 2006 Corolla with a 2011 Leaf. But I wouldn't buy a $15,000 Corolla (or whatever) anyway, because TCO is much higher, mainly driven by the higher purchase price and therefore greater depreciation and insurance costs (offset somewhat by lower maintenance).

 

To me, the interesting question is, what ICEV has equivalent TCO to the cheapest EV? And it looks to be somewhere around a 2005 Corolla.

 

If your price point is $35K/5yrs, then if you're Greener (or want to appear Greener), or perhaps more of a risk-taker, or a tech junkie, you'll buy the Leaf. If you're more conservative, you'll buy the 2005 Corolla. If you're too poor to afford a 2005 Corolla, you'll buy some other ICEV, because you can't afford any EV.

 

At higher price points, you have other choices between better EVs and better ICEVs. If you're richer and Greener, you'll buy a newer EV. If you're richer and conservative, you'll buy a Merc.

 

 




13749 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2392

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1997732 17-Apr-2018 12:18
Send private message quote this post

Personally I already have a 2003 Corolla, which is fine, but I'd like something less than 5 years old to have newer safety features. I'd probably go Nissan as they seem good quality but cheaper.

 

I wouldn't write off the car value after 5 years, but I would take into account the cost of replacing the battery pack.





AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer


5015 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1001

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1997734 17-Apr-2018 12:19
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

DataCraft:

 

EECA has a tool you can use - its designed for business users but very useful

 

https://www.eecabusiness.govt.nz/tools/vehicle-total-cost-of-ownership-tool/

 

 

The tool seems to favour petrol cars (Mazda 3) because it rates cost of sevicing for 3 years at $0 while loading $858 onto the LEAF. The cost of petrol it defaults to $1.85/L for 91 while the cost I see around my house is $2.03. 

They use a 13c / kWh which is fair.....but there are cheaper rates available. 

Plus it's a new petrol car and only over 3 years. Petrol cars tend to start falling apart after that. LEAFs don't. 






____________________________________________________
I'm on a high fibre diet. 

 

High fibre diet


842 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 112


  Reply # 1997741 17-Apr-2018 12:34
11 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver:

Plus it's a new petrol car and only over 3 years. Petrol cars tend to start falling apart after that. 

 

 

What a load of rubbish.

 

 

 

 


3216 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 510

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1997748 17-Apr-2018 12:49
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver: The cost of petrol it defaults to $1.85/L for 91 while the cost I see around my house $2.03


Going to be $2.25/l round there parts very soon. Thanks Jacinda!




Areas of Geek interest: Home Theatre, HTPC, Android Tablets & Phones, iProducts.

230 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 54


  Reply # 1997788 17-Apr-2018 13:15
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver:

DataCraft:


EECA has a tool you can use - its designed for business users but very useful


https://www.eecabusiness.govt.nz/tools/vehicle-total-cost-of-ownership-tool/



The tool seems to favour petrol cars (Mazda 3) because it rates cost of sevicing for 3 years at $0 while loading $858 onto the LEAF. The cost of petrol it defaults to $1.85/L for 91 while the cost I see around my house is $2.03. 

They use a 13c / kWh which is fair.....but there are cheaper rates available. 

Plus it's a new petrol car and only over 3 years. Petrol cars tend to start falling apart after that. LEAFs don't. 


10 year old corolla. 210000km. Just replaced rear brake pads. Not sure if they have been done before. Still original clutch. I’m confident I’ll get to 300000km in it. So hardly falling apart. Oh replaces the original battery in it when it was 8 years old.

164 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 91


  Reply # 1997799 17-Apr-2018 13:29
Send private message quote this post

Would costs come down if you do the basic maintenance yourself ? Like Change Fluids, Spark plugs, filters, brake pads, Shocks, CV joints. How DIY friendly are EV cars when the maintenance times come around, are replacement parts even found at Supercheap Auto for them yet. 

 

Although quality tools can be a bit of a investment. Are battery packs Home DIY replaceable on current builds of EV cars?


1046 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 61


  Reply # 1997828 17-Apr-2018 14:10
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

Linuxluver:

Plus it's a new petrol car and only over 3 years. Petrol cars tend to start falling apart after that. LEAFs don't. 

 

I hope you had your flame suit on for that comment! haha - it was guaranteed to upset people!

 

Back on topic, I don't think there will ever be an accurate comparison between the two technologies, due to the complexities in various vehicle makes and models.

 

I found this on a blog post which raises some good questions:

 

 

 

  • Maintenance and repair:

     

    • If it’s a while between uses of the car, will the batteries drain?
    • How long are the engines/batteries predicted to last, and how does this compare to a petrol/diesel engine?
    • How expensive are the batteries to replace? Will this negate the benefit of the cars being cheaper to run?
    • How regularly do they need to be serviced and how much will this cost?
    • What happens if the car breaks down? Do break down companies know how to fix electric cars?
    • Are the chances of break-down and the cost of repair the same, better or worse than a conventional car? Will these cars suffer higher breakdown frequencies and repair costs from having more complex electronics in them?

 

 

 


13801 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1718


  Reply # 1997833 17-Apr-2018 14:14
Send private message quote this post

Are you wanting to factor in putting in 3 phase power, if you  want to charge it faster?


 1 | 2 | 3
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Opera launches new mobile browser: Opera Touch
Posted 25-Apr-2018 20:45


TCF and Telcos Toughen Up on Scam Callers
Posted 23-Apr-2018 09:39


Amazon launches the International Shopping Experience in the Amazon Shopping App
Posted 19-Apr-2018 08:38


Spark New Zealand and TVNZ to bring coverage of Rugby World Cup 2019
Posted 16-Apr-2018 06:55


How Google can seize Microsoft Office crown
Posted 14-Apr-2018 11:08


How back office transformation drives IRD efficiency
Posted 12-Apr-2018 21:15


iPod laws in a smartphone world: will we ever get copyright right?
Posted 12-Apr-2018 21:13


Lightbox service using big data and analytics to learn more about customers
Posted 9-Apr-2018 12:11


111 mobile caller location extended to iOS
Posted 6-Apr-2018 13:50


Huawei announces the HUAWEI P20 series
Posted 29-Mar-2018 11:41


Symantec Internet Security Threat Report shows increased endpoint technology risks
Posted 26-Mar-2018 18:29


Spark switches on long-range IoT network across New Zealand
Posted 26-Mar-2018 18:22


Stuff Pix enters streaming video market
Posted 21-Mar-2018 09:18


Windows no longer Microsoft’s main focus
Posted 13-Mar-2018 07:47


Why phone makers are obsessed with cameras
Posted 11-Mar-2018 12:25



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.