EU Bans ICE cars from 2035. June 29 2022

Forums › Transport (cars, bikes and boats) › EU Bans ICE cars from 2035. June 29 2022

Batman

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#298596 30-Jun-2022 06:59

Technically speaking, it is actually a 100% emissions reduction in 2035

https://www.motor1.com/news/595006/european-union-agrees-combustion-engine-ban-2035/

environment ministers from the 27 countries have agreed to sign the ICE's execution warrant. More than 16 hours of negotitations were necessary to reach an agreement at a meeting in Luxembourg focused on ways to combat climate change in the EU. The ban refers strictly to sales of new cars and vans powered by gasoline and diesel engines.

The outcome is written in black and white: "The Council also agreed to introduce a 100% CO2 emissions reduction target by 2035 for new cars and vans." Bear in mind the European Parliament also wants to outlaw sales of used ICE-powered vehicles, but that wasn't decided today. To that end, further negotiations will take place, but the new car sales ban is now written in stone.

Before the cutoff date, automakers will have to slash CO2 emissions by 55 percent for new cars and by 50 percent for vans by the end of this decade (2030?)

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#2936354 30-Jun-2022 10:41

How did the 27 ministers and their hundreds of hangers-on get to the conference I wonder? At the very least I expect their travel and accomodation was carbon neutral in a “burn and offset” kind of way.

The EU want be careful. A famine is likely one of the causes of the French Revolution, energy famine may do the same. There is already unrest in Europe over unaffordable energy and transport costs. Brussels says “let them eat cake”.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2936361 30-Jun-2022 10:51

in fact Germany pleaded Brussels to not pass this decree

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/germany-rejects-eu-plan-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-2035-2022-06-21/

https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/germany-backs-eu-fossil-fuel-car-phaseout-with-tweak-2022-06-28/

Batman

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#2936362 30-Jun-2022 10:53

Dingbatt:

How did the 27 ministers and their hundreds of hangers-on get to the conference I wonder? At the very least I expect their travel and accomodation was carbon neutral in a “burn and offset” kind of way.

The EU want be careful. A famine is likely one of the causes of the French Revolution, energy famine may do the same. There is already unrest in Europe over unaffordable energy and transport costs. Brussels says “let them eat cake”.

ah but doesn't include planes and boats

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#2936392 30-Jun-2022 11:05

Once the cost of belonging to the EU outweighs the benefit then you may see a Gerexit, Frexit, Spexit, Itexit occur. Germany’s auto industry would be a pretty powerful lobby group I expect. The unfortunate thing for them is they are dependant on selling into the luxury market in Asia which will probably continue to power their transport on fossil fuels (directly or indirectly) for decades to come.

All you need to do is look at the backlash against the “Don’t want to pay $8 a gallon for gas? Buy a $40000 EV then.” in the USA at the moment.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

elpenguino

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#2936394 30-Jun-2022 11:07

I saw the Italians were arguing for an extension in support of their super car industry.

Most of the posters in this thread are just like chimpanzees on MDMA, full of feelings of bonhomie, joy, and optimism. Fred99 8/4/21

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#2936401 30-Jun-2022 11:23

If EVs don't get cheaper, "the market will collapse," Deboeuf said at the company's Tremery factory in France. "It's a big challenge."

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/300625548/stellantis-warns-of-car-market-collapse-if-evs-dont-get-cheaper

But

"EV prices are going up at a dizzying pace these days. Tesla raised prices by as much as US$6,000 per car this month, following similar hikes earlier this year from Rivian Automotive and Ford. Rising raw-materials costs are rendering some battery-powered models unprofitable, Ford Chief Financial Officer John Lawler said at an investor conference earlier this month."

Stellantis is the Merged Fiat/Chrysler/Peugeot/Citroen

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gzt

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#2936402 30-Jun-2022 11:27

Dingbatt: The unfortunate thing for them is they are dependant on selling into the luxury market in Asia which will probably continue to power their transport on fossil fuels (directly or indirectly) for decades to come.

No more FUD on this please. China already announced a 2035 end:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/china-bans-fossil-fuel-vehicles-electric/

Other countries will follow.

MikeB4

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#2936404 30-Jun-2022 11:29

This is a start towards doing the right thing for those who will come after us.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Dingbatt

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#2936405 30-Jun-2022 11:32

gzt:
Dingbatt: The unfortunate thing for them is they are dependant on selling into the luxury market in Asia which will probably continue to power their transport on fossil fuels (directly or indirectly) for decades to come.

No more FUD on this please. China already announced a 2035 end:

[Url]https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/china-bans-fossil-fuel-vehicles-electric/[Url]

Other countries will follow.

China isn’t the only country in Asia. Electric cars still have to get their energy from somewhere. So FUD to you too.

Edit: If you are going to quote the World Economic Forum, don’t forget to include “You will own nothing and a happy” part of their mantra.

“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996

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#2936407 30-Jun-2022 11:32

gzt:
Dingbatt: The unfortunate thing for them is they are dependant on selling into the luxury market in Asia which will probably continue to power their transport on fossil fuels (directly or indirectly) for decades to come.

No more FUD on this please. China already announced a 2035 end:

[Url]https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/china-bans-fossil-fuel-vehicles-electric/[Url]

Other countries will follow.

currently china controls almost all the world's EV battery resources

smart move!

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#2936420 30-Jun-2022 11:52

Seems to be more than just cars there's a bit more going on

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openmedia

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#2936456 30-Jun-2022 13:00

Surprised it is that far out. I'd love to see a much earlier date here.

How about a 2025 cut off for vehicles plus second hand imports? That would really move things forward. We've got far too many very old cars on the road here in NZ.

Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat APAC as a Technology Evangelist and Portfolio Architect. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

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#2936485 30-Jun-2022 13:53

gzt:
Dingbatt: The unfortunate thing for them is they are dependant on selling into the luxury market in Asia which will probably continue to power their transport on fossil fuels (directly or indirectly) for decades to come.

No more FUD on this please. China already announced a 2035 end:

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/china-bans-fossil-fuel-vehicles-electric/

Other countries will follow.

That article does not say that at all. I quote:

"By 2035, all new vehicles sold in China must be powered by 'new-energy', the Chinese authorities have said. Half of them must be electric, fuel cell, or plug-in hybrid – the remaining 50%, hybrid vehicles."

Also, china is somewhat of an outlier in asia, by far the most progressive on car electrification Plenty more of Asia to soak up ICE car's.

China, 1.37 billion
India, 1.299 billion
Indonesia, 255.46 million
Pakistan, 191.78 million
Bangladesh, 158.76 million
Japan, 126.89 million
The Philippines, 102.96 million
Vietnam, 91.81 million
Iran, 78.77 million
Turkey, 78.21 million

I spend a bit of time in the Philippines as that is where my wife's family lives.

Took them quite a while to get their heads around that she drives a Nissan leaf in NZ, and what a pure electric car is.

In Philippine's a 40kWH leaf runs at PHP 2,798,000.00 ($81,846).

For comparison, popular cars their include the Toyota vios (basically a yaris sedan, most of the taxi fleets are the base 1.3L manual version of this) at PHP 681,000 base, A toyota fortuner would be considered a very nice car, base price is PHP 1,633,000 (110kW, 2.4L diesel manual).

Power is fairly expensive at cira NZD 0.28 /kWh, dirty, and unreliable compared to NZ (I was in Manila when the entire city preemptively shut off power as a typhoon approached, as a prior typhoon resulted in a part with a 2 - 3 week lead time blowing up, and they didn't want to go that again). Rural beach resorts often advertise a backup genset as an amenity...

Fuel is relatively cheap cira NZD 2.49/L for 91 petrol, diesel is cira $2.63 (no additional RUC's to pay like NZ) at the moment. And in general the cars are fairly economical (little point in having a powerful car in the Philippines, traffic moves slowly unless you are on a motorway.).

And wealthy people tend to buy one more car than they need (to avoud coding / carless days) in manila.

All this stacks up to EV's being pritty unattractive. I don't think I have ever seen a private EV car in the wild in the Philippines.

That said, they don't really like euro car's much anyway, full frame upper large SUV's (Pardo, landcuiser 200 / 300, ford Everest), and van's (Japanese or Korean) seem to be the vehicle's of choice for the wealthy. Having drivers is common for the wealthy.

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#2936495 30-Jun-2022 14:07

openmedia:

Surprised it is that far out. I'd love to see a much earlier date here.

How about a 2025 cut off for vehicles plus second hand imports? That would really move things forward. We've got far too many very old cars on the road here in NZ.

2035 is extremely ambitious for Europe.

Brings them largely in line with the UK zero tailpipe emissions from 2035, between 2030 & 2035, all cars must have the capability to drive a significant distance with zero emissions (for example, plug-in hybrids or full hybrids).

2035 is just 13 years away. 13 years is a very tight timeline for automakers to move from producing most cars that run from petrol / diesel, to producing those that don't. There are going to be some serious resource constraint issue, that are going to likely mean that automakers cannot produce as many cars as they do today.

Basically no chance on NZ moving sooner. We are not the kind of country to be an early mover with that kind of stuff, and also we don't really have the market power to push auto makers around like the UK does.

Already we have the likes of Isuzu Utes New Zealand, and Suzuki considering pulling out of the NZ market over our fairly mild Clean Car standard. (despite Suzuki selling a lot of small & efficient cars).

<a href="https://www.autocar.co.nz/suzuki-assessing-withdrawal-from-nz-over-nonsense-clean-car-standard/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.autocar.co.nz/suzuki-assessing-withdrawal-from-nz-over-nonsense-clean-car-standard/</a>

I think best case we move 5 years later than the UK. (Full Hybrids / EV's only from 2035, EV's only from 2040).

But hopefully we can keep moving the targets for the clean car discount / standard around so that buying a petrol / diesel car becomes an expensive option.

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#2936509 30-Jun-2022 14:16

Scott3:
China, 1.37 billion
India, 1.299 billion
Indonesia, 255.46 million
Pakistan, 191.78 million
Bangladesh, 158.76 million
Japan, 126.89 million
The Philippines, 102.96 million
Vietnam, 91.81 million
Iran, 78.77 million
Turkey, 78.21 million

I take your point. Nevertheless, many of these countries have end dates.

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