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#2824518 4-Dec-2021 23:13

Cant blame Jamo there going for the maximum with the #11 left.

Ind just TOO good. Lowest total of all time vs NZ.

Kholi unlikely for the follow on, would be the weirdest turn around if NZ get Ind for 60 odd and then go on to chase down the total haha, would be a fittng bizarre game.

Just brilliant finger spin display from Ind and sensational bouncey seam to open the NZ team up to start. Ashwin a class act with the ball, despite his antics haha.

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#2824519 4-Dec-2021 23:15

"DAMN, now that was a stupid offensive shot, was defending with ease "

Defending??? :-)

KJ playing offensive, also out.

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#2824520 4-Dec-2021 23:17

TeaLeaf:

Cant blame Jamo there going for the maximum with the #11 left.

Ind just TOO good. Lowest total of all time vs NZ.

Just brilliant finger spin display from Ind and sensational bouncey seam to open the NZ team up to start. Ashwin a class act with the ball, despite his antics haha.

Yes, far too good

I thought Ajaz finger spin was quite good too

TeaLeaf

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#2824523 4-Dec-2021 23:24

I think Southee and KJ need to give up on the away swing and just go for the cutters, going on how the ball behaved for India, aim 5 stumps out and let the ball do the work with 3/4 seam. Swing isnt tempting the Ind batsmen.

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#2824524 4-Dec-2021 23:26

Trivia

Ajaz took 10 wickets

Ajaz was the only Black Cap who didn't lose a wicket.

Ironic and also cool

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#2824525 4-Dec-2021 23:27

TeaLeaf:

I think Southee and KJ need to give up on the away swing and just go for the cutters, going on how the ball behaved for India, aim 5 stumps out and let the ball do the work with 3/4 seam. Swing isnt tempting the Ind batsmen.

You would think that they would know that as well as the captain and coaches

TeaLeaf

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#2824527 4-Dec-2021 23:32

tdgeek:

You would think that they would know that as well as the captain and coaches

Sometimes players only know one way, or get set in their ways, Southee is a swing bowler so he will not bowl seam often, 1/6 balls. He adapted better on the first pitch. KJ im a bit surprised with, he came back economically but wasnt using his height and bounce at any time in the first innings. But he might not get a bowl any time soon.

Pujara is the ultimate opener, one of the best openers ever. Getting him twice cheaply wont be easy to say the least.

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TeaLeaf

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#2824530 4-Dec-2021 23:41

When all the haze burns off Mumbai looks soooo awesome. Makes me want to visit there. Clearly not right now. Would love to watch a test at that ground.

Pujara vs Ajaz, only one slip and one leg side catcher. Much lower amount of pressure than 6 around the bat when Ashwin is bowling. Consequently hes 16/15 so far. Thats how its done, not letting NZ dominate and settle into taking wickets.

TeaLeaf

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#2824531 5-Dec-2021 00:00

At this run rate Id expect Ind to declare by Tea tomorrow, within about 60 overs or a lead of 500. Imagine if NZ all out in 3rd session, world #1 team out in 3 days. Will add to sceptism about NZ playing outside of NZ and Eng on the cricket forums. I hope they make a better go of it and at least bat 4 sessions. That will get some respect.

Jamo bowling the bouncy cutter now, just needs to land it one stump further out and hes dialed in.

TeaLeaf

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#2824632 5-Dec-2021 15:41

Ajaz 10fa is just a freak against nature, its hard to put it as the best bowling for NZ over Hadlee who took the catch to dismiss the final batsman (should have dropped it and taken it next over lol) in Aus 9/53 in 23 ov at avg of ~5. Where Patel bowled near 50 overs at an Avg of ~15.

But what makes it amazing for me is that fact, that Ajaz is not NZs best bowler. And he had no support aside from Southee being tight. Perhaps in hind sight Wagner would have been he support Ajaz needed and likely would have limited him to a 5fa, but they went with Somerville who was terribad with bowling on middle to leg and even down leg spinning further down leg (kept blundell on his toes). And it was either Ajaz or Ind score 600+ in the first innings imo. That is the context of the effort, effort being the operative word. Wow he must be sore today and has to bowl again in less than an hour.

Ajaz now has AWAY figures below Ashwins all time figures just for context, at ~23 SR still high, dropped nearly 10 overnight away. He is now below 30 with the ball all time, dropping from avg 31 to 28.

IMO that is hard evidence for NZ playing a dedciated spinner and with quality ex spinners in Deepak and Vettori, there is enough guidance there for our younger players to not see NZ as only a seaming nation. If you arent above 5ft10 its a mugs game imo, especially 5ft 8 and below, which is where Ajaz had Depak Patel convince him spin was his path for Auckland and it paid off (as did playing for other provinces with Auck being too packed with players). I think the path Rachin and GP are on is justified, NZ is green and fast, but the pitches do turn by end of day 4 and quality spinner whether finger or leg break wrist, can bowl on any surface, Vettori and Warne being too elite examples.

If Rachin and GP can improve their quality, that might just be the ticket for our next attempt in INd, likely sooner than latter given our status as world #1 and should remain in top for next 6-7 years, hopefully the next Kane is just around the corner. But if we can improve GP FC from Avg 40 to below 30 home and away, and clearly Rachin has a bit more work but if both can get below 30 avg bowling home and away, that is almost Ind like with Ashwin and Jadeja being world class all rounders. If we can then have one ultra talented leg break like Sodhi but more ambitious like Warne come through, then we stand an absolute chance next time around. I just hope Wagner is still around and KJ continues on from his first Test effort. Its the holy grail of cricket to beat Ind in Ind. We will have retiring players but so do they.

As for NZ top individual efforts, Hadlee 9-52 off 23ov is not going to be beaten any time soon, Crowe 299 beats Mccullums 300 for me, simply due to the era Crowe was in, regardless of being out 299. Lara's world record was the stand out individual batting effort for me of in between the 2 eras. So Hadlee, Crowe, Mccullum, Ajaz would make up the top 5. I think Ajaz squeaks in not because of the 10fa, but because of the amount of overs he had to bowl with no Wagner or support from the other 2 spinners. Really more of a Wagner effort oddly enough, the 10 wickets just make the effort of bowling that many overs even more special.

So even if we lose 1 test away in Ind, looking at the positives, NZ has a couple of all rounders who can seriously bat, who with a little more guidance could be turned into World Class all rounders and you have Jamo who is still on track despite not adjusting to the top of off and using the bounce first innings, did so in the first test and his AVG is still very high.

A shame Kane will miss the Aus games, its always the way when we play Aus, we miss a key player. I dont think the South Afr tests will occur due to this new covid strain unless something dramatic changes in the vaccine space soon. Moderna were saying by May there should be enough for all countries to be vaxxed, which should slow the roll of mutations. So I think perhaps by 22/23 season things might get back to some normality.

We also have a really promising keeper coming on. Ben Sears is potential for more than white ball cricekt, needs a lot of work yet, but his action could see us bowl a Starc like seamer on fast bouncy wickets. Not to mention Finn Allen, Conway etc, with Finn Needing to prove himself at FC level now hes made he move away from Auck, much like Ajaz had to. Hes definitely proved himself in T20, but FC and Test is a big step up.

Either way, NZ have a lot of talent to come and a good 6-7 years out of he bulk of the current playing group to help those new players come on.

TeaLeaf

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#2824645 5-Dec-2021 16:48

That pitch map of how Maynak handle the NZ spinners and destroyed them off their length, he attacked all lengths, including skipping down the pitch to Ajaz shorter ball and clearly Somers whose line was more the issue, but that is how you play with intent, it is not a wreckless mentality like Mccullum, its simply about having the intent not to be dominated to by going into your shell, score avg run rate. Well done, hes played amazing given the 10 wicket from Ajaz.

TeaLeaf

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#2824648 5-Dec-2021 16:52

Wellington off to a bad start, similar to NZs WC start. 6rpo, 3 down.

tdgeek

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#2824714 5-Dec-2021 17:48

TeaLeaf:

Ajaz 10fa is just a freak against nature, its hard to put it as the best bowling for NZ

True, we should have used Santner instead....

Maybe you should treat our team as what it is. NZ is 5 million. Ive been to MANY cities that are double the size. Yet we punch above our weight.

India in India is like the AB's at Eden Park.

But when you downplay a player who was the ONLY ONE to get our wickets and the only one not to lose his wicket, well what can I say? In all of crickets history there are only three that did this. But its a freak against nature. Well, I watched it. On target most balls, turning it every ball, stats don't lie. And IN INDIA against INDIA and with spin which is India's batting forte, as well as bowling forte. But you downplay it.

Bye.

TeaLeaf

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#2824744 5-Dec-2021 19:02

tdgeek:

Maybe you should treat our team as what it is. NZ is 5 million. Ive been to MANY cities that are double the size. Yet we punch above our weight.

India in India is like the AB's at Eden Park.

But when you downplay a player who was the ONLY ONE to get our wickets and the only one not to lose his wicket, well what can I say? In all of crickets history there are only three that did this. But its a freak against nature. Well, I watched it. On target most balls, turning it every ball, stats don't lie. And IN INDIA against INDIA and with spin which is India's batting forte, as well as bowling forte. But you downplay it.

Bye.

Wow, you are just a total gas lighter. After I have rated in our top 5 performances of all time, and stated many times as has Handle how NZ hasnt choked given its population and player pull, which Ive expressed many times over. None of your points are about cricket but about me. Yet none of them hold up either. Instead of commenting on other people, comment on what you see ONLY. There is no place for attacking other people. Yet you havnt even given analysing the performance a go at all, did you even watch Hadlee bowl in Brisbane? There is no downplay in calling it a freak of nature and rating it in NZs top 5 performances of all time, and you are right the stats dont lie which is why its not #1 but in the top 5 IMO, now state your analysis and opinion only and dont base it on just stats, back it up with why the stats back up your opinion given the role the players performance justifies along with the stats, stop trying to gaslight, state your perspective only. Stop attacking people PERIOD ! That is the last time I reply to it.

Back to the cricket.

Thinking about Somers and what he could do here with right hand orthodox. Come around the wicket and through it into the outside leg coming from out wide with his spin across the batsman.

Oh man, now the commentary talking about Wagner should be bowling and Santner would have been a better choice than Somers along with his fielding and batting, have to agree. One or the other, given the spin, you know Santner is accurate even if his spin isnt as sharp as Ajaz, its a similar action being a lefty.

tdgeek

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#2824746 5-Dec-2021 19:11

Lol ok. I don't line up with a list of pet players and pet hate players, nor do I then bag the captain and the coaches and the management for not picking who'd Id like them to pick. Nor do I give batting and bowling advice to professional sportspeople.

But the greatest sin is hiding behind, by playing the gaslight card. Ive stated my opinion on your, shall we say bias, and shall we say expertise, and an inability to have robust discussion if it doesnt suit your narrative. By which you gaslight, yourself.

But thats just my onion, peel it as you like.

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