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#3250792 19-Jun-2024 12:54

Handsomedan: Last time we’ll see a few of these players in a T20 match I think.

They’ve bowed out with a decent win against weak opponents, but it’s been a tournament to forget.

If only we could be that lucky. I expect the same group of players to keep turning out for NZ until they themselves decide to hang it up. Stead's leadership has been characterized by picking the same core group over and over, come what may. I accept we've had some pretty decent players over his time in charge, but the lack of churn is notable.

And the inconsistency is baffling sometimes, like the recent example of Boult highlighted above. Trent was no good for the Aussie test series due to a lack of red ball cricket, but Allen and Conway both walk straight into the T20 World Cup team on the back of extended injury breaks and zero cricket.

Sounds like Williamson is about to turn down a NZ contract to concentrate on T20 leagues, although he will apparently be available for most or all of NZ's test matches. I don't have a problem with that, he's simply not a top-drawer T20 player as evidenced by him only getting couple of starts in the recent IPL. He lacks the explosiveness and inventiveness of the world's best T20 batters nowadays, and I believe ultimately the NZ T20 side will be stronger for him not being a part of it. A much bigger loss to the 50-over side I think where he has a chance to build an innings.

It's shame NZ Cricket is not wealthy enough to pay Williamson to concentrate on red ball cricket, as England does with Root and Australia does with Smith, etc. I'd rather Kane gets an old-school County contract if he wants to play year-round cricket and travel with his family. Worked well for Hadlee back in the day. Anyway, as I say, good luck to him.

TeaLeaf

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#3253139 25-Jun-2024 18:56

thermonuclear:

Sounds like Williamson is about to turn down a NZ contract to concentrate on T20 leagues, although he will apparently be available for most or all of NZ's test matches. I don't have a problem with that, he's simply not a top-drawer T20 player as evidenced by him only getting couple of starts in the recent IPL.

Neither, NZ had a golden Era off the back of the bloke. He deserves to get wealthy out of all of our players, far more than Boult. T20 on the SEa and carribean circuits are such a hand eye demand due to the really sub standard surfaces, but if anybody can keep an eye on a ball thats meant to bounce over his head and ends up low down the pads its Mr Williamson. and if he can fit in our Test cricket most of the time, so be it, because if anything that hand eye situation will just make him an even better test playr outside of NZ.

Well I predicted Afg vs Ind final and that looks really possible now. afg went from minnow to flagship ejector within a few games and all it took was some confidence. They have possibly the most dangerous bowling attack in the world, some brilliant bowlers and not to forget some quality batting too. Ind are actually quite similar. If it does end up the final it will be a fascinating match. I think afg have the better raw talent, but Ind has the experience and confidence.

Still two games before it happens though :-)

Dochart

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#3253143 25-Jun-2024 19:09

I think Afghanistan Wicketkeeper opening batter is injured. Afghanistan openers have been really good this tournament so if he is injured that reduces their chances of making it into the finals.

Afghanistan have mainly batted first in this tournament which is their strength similar to NZ but we keep on batting last when we faced Afghanistan and West Indies. I wonder if NZ had decided to bat first in those games what the outcome would of been.

South Africa vs India or Afghanistan vs India would be the outcome I want.

TeaLeaf

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#3253830 27-Jun-2024 14:12

What a way for afg to be taken out of the series, bowled out for 56.....

:-( there goes the team I had hopes would go all the way. Oh well, they did themselves proud by taking some huge scalps.

Dochart

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#3254800 30-Jun-2024 16:41

What a final between India and South Africa at the T20 World Cup. This could have gone either way and great that the toss wasn’t a huge factor like previous T20 World Cups (2021 T20 Toss World Cup). India won the toss and decided to bat.

South Africa needed to get 30 runs off 30 balls with 6 wickets in hand and only needed 1’s, 2’s and 3’s to win the game but losing Klassen and Miller quickly was the reason why India won. 99% of the time 30 off 30 with 6 wickets in hand would have been gettable, only South Africa could choke from that position. I gotta feel for the South Africans they almost had this trophy in the bag. All it takes is 2 overs/10 minutes of bad play to lose the game. Most people probably thought at 30 runs off 30 balls with 6 wickets in hand was South Africa game at that time.

Kohli and Rohit played their last T20i game. What a way to go out on a high and for Dravid as well as this was his last time coaching India.

TeaLeaf

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#3255313 1-Jul-2024 19:29

Dochart:
Kohli and Rohit played their last T20i game. What a way to go out on a high and for Dravid as well as this was his last time coaching India.

Yeh Im happy for them.

Im just a bit caught out by the politics. Sport is always the loser.

I am confused, is Kane just declining full commitment to NZC but has signed that he will play in between other engagements? I really couldnt care if he retired from white ball, but I hope hes still going to play NZ Red ball (and the domestic t20, although likely he will get more money in the BBL).

We had our chances at world cups, this feel like the first white ball final series since the 15 ODI final that we have missed. We should have won that WC, and imo we didnt lose 19 which was handled terribly, but some freak things like hitting old mate Kiwi Stokes's bat going for 5 runs was just gutting to lose from.

Dont get me wrong, we have plenty of talent in our team, some real nasty fastys set for 10+ yrs, guys like GP who seem to carry the team at times with his stupidly quick legs to take stupidly hard catches, his spin is just getting better, and holds it down with the bat. Rachin is a rubbish fielder and isnt quite the spinner but he has the potential, but if honest, id get him a solid batting coach and look to him to be more confident to become our next high 40s batsman, he wont matc Kane, but when hes not giving his wicket away he shows moments of Taylor in him. I think he could be that for us. There are many more to unpack, and we do have more coming through and likely more after that. I think having such a long golden era will have made more kids, many not far away now, wanting to play cricket for their country.

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Dochart

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#3255318 1-Jul-2024 19:47

Kane only declined the NZC contract as the requirement of signing a NZC contract you must also play domestically as well such as the Super Smash. Understand why he chose not to sign one this year as there not much international cricket happening around January in NZ. I think Williamson is done with T20i as there are players that are better than him in that format but he should still continue with ODI’s and Tests as those suit his game much better.

We should have at least won one ICC Trophy with the squad we have 2019 ODI World Cup or 2021 T20 World Cup. I think we may never win another ICC Trophy anytime soon. Maybe last chance is 2025 Champions Trophy or 2027 ODI World Cup if the likes of Williamson, Conway, Daryl Mitchell, still there and Matt Henry, Jamieson, O’Rourke as the bowlers. I don’t think Southee or Boult will still be there at that time. I feel like NZ more likely will win an ODI Icc Tournament than the T20 World Cup 2026.

What really frustrates me is we could have potentially gone to Super 8’s or knockouts if we selected players with recent form or experience playing in the West Indies. NZ selectors not taking cricket seriously by not picking the right 15. Not playing Ravindra in the 1st match against Afghanistan when some players haven’t played in months was not the right call.

TeaLeaf

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#3255342 1-Jul-2024 20:54

Dochart: Jamieson

He has been missed as the bowler he can actually bat a bit, in tests clearly with his insane bowling avg over a fair period. You cant replace height for awkward deliviries, especially at pace, but withh that comes injuries. Would have easily been on his way to our best bowler outside Paddles otherwise, different bowler to Bond, but similar situation. None the less, if he plays enough tests he will easily smash our fastest bowler to one hundred wickets.

O'rourke and Ben Sears are our chargers. Not good both have already had injurd, but once again, height and speed. Sears being the fastest of the 3. It would be quite frightning to get KJ back with these two and Matt Henry, that would be a hell of a pace attack. Throw GP in there for as many as he can which is a lot, and maybe Rachin but I think GP can handle an epic work load he is so fit. Beastie maybe but his age is ticking on.

So thats all good.

its what we do about getting a real Test wicket keeper batsman along with fixing our openers to middle. Conway must be close to gone in all 3 formats. It would be amazing if somebody could figure out whats gone wrong since the WTC....

Dochart

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#3255343 1-Jul-2024 21:01

Forgot to mention Sears as well. Henry, Jamieson, O’Rourke and Sears. Each bowler has a different set of skills. That would be a nice quartet for ICC Champions Trophy in Pakistan next year where pitches would suit pacers much better and the ODI World Cup in 2027 in Africa. Then Santner, Phillips and Bracewell as our spin allrounders

NZC selectors need to do a better job at selecting the side if we want to win another ICC Trophy. Selecting players who are on form.

TeaLeaf

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#3255345 1-Jul-2024 21:12

Dochart: Forgot to mention Sears as well. Henry, Jamieson, O’Rourke and Sears. Each bowler has a different set of skills. That would be a nice quartet for ICC Champions Trophy in Pakistan next year where pitches would suit pacers much better and the ODI World Cup in 2027 in Africa. Then Santner, Phillips and Bracewell as our spin allrounders

NZC selectors need to do a better job at selecting the side if we want to win another ICC Trophy. Selecting players who are on form.

That is 7 players sorted there. Red Ball WK wise, I mentioned a young chap ages ago, hes had one season but he looks good. Short Term, Cam Fletcher just has to be our WK imo. Hes good across all 3 formats with strong averages. Only 33 in Red Ball, but so was Tom Blundell before tests, heck Mitchell at 3 for Cant was nothing close to his test avg. So many players put on 5-10 runs in their avg when stepping up to Tests, its a phenomena Ive been keeping my eye on but cant explain. But you do get the odd one who goes the other way lol.

add a top 4 and we have an awesome middle, WK and a 12th man sorted.

TeaLeaf

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#3275014 24-Aug-2024 20:39

NZ v SL sub cont WTC matches just around the corner. One will have a rest day due to elections, interesting. Southee has been vocal about this club vs country dilemma which is great to see, but would be nice if some of the other super stars spoke up.

Im pretty happy with the squad, aside from we should be playing another more positive wicket keeper than Blundell, same ole problem at our mid-tail. With no KJ is just compounded. BUT, Bracewell with Phillips will be good, obviously Ravindra will be in the top order. I think its really conditions specific whether they play Southee. Id be happy with Henry and Ben Sears with the 3 spinner/batsmen. Or Orourke with Sears if they daring enough or Henry/Orourke is playing it safe.

We ideally would like a series win to get us into the top 2 mix, but that ultimately will be decided in India with a rather late in the Season 3 test series of India in November, and a two test series in NZ vs Eng starting late Nov. Form wise NZ won the last match by 1 run but Eng have one the prior 4 matches. I think NZ just have to play the best weapons they have in the bowling, I think in NZ thats the 4 quicks with Ravindra and Phillips, but we will see the team makeup later in the year. Its a big ask to beat both SL and Ind at home then beat Eng in NZ when we are bits and bobs team wise this year. Hoping for the best, expecting aus and Ind to make the WTC Final.

2024 SL vs NZ Match Squads | SL vs NZ Sqauds - ESPNcricinfo

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thermonuclear

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#3275023 24-Aug-2024 21:36

Good to see you've pulled your head out of the US Presidential Election thread for five minutes to run your eye over this one, TeaLeaf! ;)

Yeah, I can't say I'm entirely happy with the squad picked for the upcoming matches. As you've probably guessed, I wouldn't have taken Southee, Santner, and probably even Blundell now to the sub-continent. Would have liked to have seen Tim Pringle given a go on the basis of John Bracewell's strong endorsement. More encouraged by Sears and O'Rourke getting a tour, they are the future of the pace attack and there's no point in delaying any longer in my view. Sadly I think Jamieson's international career might be done but we can hold out hope I guess.

Of much more concern is the continued selection of Stead and, particularly, batting coach Ronchi. Not that I expected a change obviously, but still disappointing that NZ Cricket continue to put faith in these guys to lead the side forward. A lot of batters out of form, you would hope the season break might refresh the minds and we will see the return of the best of guys like Conway and Mitchell and Blundell and Latham, but I'm not confident.

With the two Lankan, one Indian and three English tests upcoming, I don't see much prospect for success. Wish I could be more positive and I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see this side with current make-up, form, and leadership getting much out of the next six tests, if anything. Perhaps Sears and O'Rourke will prove a continued revelation and cut a swathe through the opposition batting line-ups, and Williamson continues to churn out the runs. Just don't see too many others monstering the competition currently.

Will be watching regardless, can't beat test cricket.

TeaLeaf

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#3281863 13-Sep-2024 19:49

thermonuclear:

Will be watching regardless, can't beat test cricket.

Gosh the single Afg test was frustrating, sunshine day two and its called off due to lack of drainage. Afg team are top 5 contenders now, deserve better.

Hopefully we get full sunshine and a 5 day thriller in the Sir Lankan test on the 18th.

Dochart

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#3285571 23-Sep-2024 19:56

If we batted better in the first innings we could have won the test match against SL.

Anyone notice in test cricket Conway seems to always get out LBW or bowled for some reason.

Bracewell needs to be included in the side. I rate him a better batter and bowler than Santner. I need to see Young play as an opener in the subcontinent. Hasn’t done too well opening at home but could perform better on subcontinent pitches. Conway form in tests has not be good these last few years, always seem to be the first player to get out. Trying Young in Sri Lanka and India is a good idea at this rate.

TeaLeaf

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#3286230 25-Sep-2024 13:34

Dochart: If we batted better in the first innings we could have won the test match against SL.

Anyone notice in test cricket Conway seems to always get out LBW or bowled for some reason.

I actually still thought we had a chance while Rachin was out there, but yeh, we didnt make the most of platforms.

Id actually like Bracewell in for Southee. We are missing that extra bowler who can bat in Jamieson.

Will Orourke is doing a KJ with his start to Test cricket, but without the batting. 8 wickets with a 5fa in SEa is good work. Currently averaging 15. It will be interesting to see if he will beat KJ's record to 50 test wickets. I think long term, he could be our next Hadlee level bowler. He is consistantly in that channel of 4-5th wicket at reasonable pace, reminds me of Pat Cummins for au.

Conway has just lost his method. I think the reason for being lbw/bowled so much is he playing across the line when he should be defending or driving.

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