Support for 'Crusaders' name change appears to be growing..

Forums › Sports › Support for 'Crusaders' name change appears to be growing..

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | ... | 13

623 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2200975 18-Mar-2019 18:42

To the people who feel strongly that the name shouldn't change, what would be your reaction and reasons for or against a team called the Mujahideen?

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2200981 18-Mar-2019 19:03

rhy7s: To the people who feel strongly that the name shouldn't change, what would be your reaction and reasons for or against a team called the Mujahideen?

I think you should take what has happened a little more seriously and not go disrespectfully dropping suggestions like that.

MileHighKiwi

782 posts

Ultimate Geek

ID Verified

Lifetime subscriber

#2201037 18-Mar-2019 20:07

Some good reading here about the Crusades....not something I know a lot about but the history is complex and I dont believe the Canterbury Rugby Union chose a name because it evoked a holy war against Muslims.

http://theconversation.com/why-the-crusades-were-not-a-clash-of-civilisations-86784

"On campaign, the crusaders’ main opponents were the Seljuk Turks. The Turks were originally a largely shamanistic and nomadic people who had migrated from the Central Asian Steppe region to conquer much of the Muslim world during the century preceding the crusade. They had seized Syria and the Holy Land only 20 years previously.

By the 1090s, the Turks had begun to convert to Islam but many retained elements of their former beliefs. During the crusade – and in later decades – observers noted that some Turks still (among other things): buried their dead with grave goods, scalped enemies, and conducted colossal drinking parties. All these customs reflected their former traditions and many of these and other practices conflicted with Islamic teaching. So the Turks – the crusaders’ main opponents – were hardly longstanding adherents of Islam but instead were part of the way through a long-term process of religious transition."

Batman

Mad Scientist
29760 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2201042 18-Mar-2019 20:18

Coil:

I find it very questionable we have a team of predominately dark skinned males called "The All Blacks"

I find it very questionable we have a team of predominately light skinned males called "The All Whites"

Is there a problem officer?

Those are just some colours, like red and blue and etc.

The team in question is a movement, and there is no ambiguity about it.

Imagine playing a team called the Jihadis.

Coil

6614 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2201105 18-Mar-2019 20:48

Batman:

Coil:

I find it very questionable we have a team of predominately dark skinned males called "The All Blacks"

I find it very questionable we have a team of predominately light skinned males called "The All Whites"

Is there a problem officer?

Those are just some colours, like red and blue and etc.

The team in question is a movement, and there is no ambiguity about it.

Imagine playing a team called the Jihadis.

There is no movement called the crusaders or what ever, where did you get that idea from??

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/deus-vult This is a meme thing about going on a crusade which effectively means making noise cause you don't like something.

freitasm

BDFL - Memuneh
79250 posts

Uber Geek

Administrator

ID Verified

Trusted

Geekzone

Lifetime subscriber

#2201106 18-Mar-2019 20:51

Handsomedan: But surely nobody could be offended by The Blues...I mean, it's not even like they're in it for the points.

Of course someone will be offended. Blues is associated with a sad mental state...

lurker

831 posts

Ultimate Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#2201149 18-Mar-2019 21:04

Name change for the Crusaders seems inevitable, kind of feels like they've painted themselves into a corner. You can't say you're considering it in light of what's happened, then come back and say we've thought about it and nah.

Equinox IT

Cloud spending continues to surge globally, but most organisations haven’t made the changes necessary to maximise the value and cost-efficiency benefits of their cloud investments. Download the whitepaper From Overspend to Advantage now.

MadEngineer

4271 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2201150 18-Mar-2019 21:04

Image result for caped crusader meme bye

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

Batman

Mad Scientist
29760 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2201153 18-Mar-2019 21:09

amiga500:

In my opinion a name change cannot happen fast enough. Mark Richardson has come out in support of a name change. The CEO for the Crusaders has said a name change had already been discussed prior to the tragic events on Friday.

Today I went to look at the floral tributes left at the Botanic Gardens and to read the messages, many of which had been written by children, and it only highlighted how utterly insensitive and stupid it would be to to continue the use of the 'Crusaders' name.

Even before this tragedy the completely inappropriate pre-match display of knights, broad swords, and horses made me cringe as it would anyone who had spent even an hour's study of what the Crusades really were. Let's hope a change is made, & quickly.

If the franchise does not change its name it will be an utter disgrace.

To those saying that crusade(s)/crusader(s) can refer to anything, well this picture sums it up pretty clearly that it does not.

networkn

Networkn
32349 posts

Uber Geek

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#2201186 18-Mar-2019 21:33

lurker:

Name change for the Crusaders seems inevitable, kind of feels like they've painted themselves into a corner. You can't say you're considering it in light of what's happened, then come back and say we've thought about it and nah.

Yep.

dejadeadnz

2394 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2201191 18-Mar-2019 21:43

Handle9:

In the wake of the atrocities of Friday there needs to be change. Not all of this change is going to be comfortable or sit well with everyone but it's pretty clear that New Zealand has not been the place it purports to be for Muslims. The girls being abused at the train station yesterday shows that.

The Crusades were a religous war on Muslims. That is undeniable. The imagery associated with the team is 100% associated with that religous war - swords, horses, chain mail and crosses. You can try and pretend it isn't but what-aboutism and being defensive can't obscure what it is.

No one is associating the team with the acts of Friday but it's a fair conversation to ask do we want to have our heros associated with religous wars.

The reality with most of the crybabies decrying political correctness and projecting some kind of nonsense upon those who believe that decency requires a history, context, and community-aware team and individuals involve with it to seriously consider changing its name is this: they love to cry about some "other" being easily offended, being pathetic, ridiculous, or unduly demanding etc. But it's actually them who are easily scared, offended, and pathetic. Your point is absolutely right: if this team is as special as its supporters think it is and as it purports to be (I don't particularly care one way or another -- couldn't give two hoots about rugby), a mere change of name won't affect it or any truly loyal fans one iota.

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2201239 18-Mar-2019 22:30

It wasn't a front of mind issue this time last week and there wasn't any public clamouring for a name change then. I'm not aware there was any undertone of anyone being offended by the name prior to last Friday. We have one crazy zealot who goes on a killing rampage and now there's a call for a change to the name of a team that had nothing to do with what happened.

The Crusaders name didn't spark the attack and changing the name won't stop any other similar attacks.

I'm sorry I don't see the logic in changing the name.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

dejadeadnz

2394 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#2201258 18-Mar-2019 22:51

Nobody is saying that the Crusaders caused the attack or changing the name will stop similar attacks. Stop playing with strawmen. What people are saying is that the team's emblems and imageries reference historical events that are utterly offensive and hurtful to a vulnerable part of our community, is inappropriate in view of recent events, and is furthermore completely tone deaf as to such imagery and emblem's historical origins. Get it?

Extending people the courtesy of considering their arguments fairly or, at a minimum, representing what they are saying fairly, will make you a slightly more decent human being. Give this a try sometime.

surfisup1000

5288 posts

Uber Geek

#2201261 18-Mar-2019 22:57

My 2c worth -- of course the crusaders should change their name, to show respect in the face of new zealands worst mass murder.

'Chiefs' describes a hierarchical ranking as opposed being linked to a particular atrocity.

'Highlanders' is just an old name for a group of people living in scotland.

Neither the chiefs or highlanders fit the same criteria.

Technofreak

6530 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#2201275 18-Mar-2019 23:14

dejadeadnz:

Nobody is saying that the Crusaders caused the attack or changing the name will stop similar attacks. Stop playing with strawmen. What people are saying is that the team's emblems and imageries reference historical events that are utterly offensive and hurtful to a vulnerable part of our community, is inappropriate in view of recent events, and is furthermore completely tone deaf as to such imagery and emblem's historical origins. Get it?

Extending people the courtesy of considering their arguments fairly or, at a minimum, representing what they are saying fairly, will make you a slightly more decent human being. Give this a try sometime.

You illustrate my point perfectly.

There was no public discussion about the the teams emblems and imageries being offensive prior to last Fridays events yet there is now, just because of the actions of one nutter. I have not heard or aware that the Muslim community found the Crusaders name or emblems to be offensive in anyway. The Crusades were so far back in history they have no direct relevance to today.

If there was a team called the Gladiators complete with their tools of trade as emblems, as Christian I would not be offended. It relates to something way back in history and has no bearing on me today.

The public call for a name change is a kneejerk reaction to the actions of one demented zealot.

P.S.

You really do need to stop being so supercilious. I don't consider myself to be any better or worse than you, yet you seem to make a habit of having a condescending, conceited and patronising attitude to those you disagree with.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | ... | 13