MH 17 "shot down" all dead

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#1092858 21-Jul-2014 10:37

pinkydot: I don't understand why people blaming the airline. Is it because of MH370 incident happen before & straight away you think the airline fault again?
What if it was Singapore Airline SQ351 at that time? Would you think differently? They both flying the same route at that time.
Why not just blame the agency who approve the route?

Just an event that nobody want it to happen.

I suspect that a lot of "blaming the airline" results from an orchestrated campaign of pro-Russia shill posts on the 'net.
The militants seem intent on seizing the evidence, supposedly they have the flight recorders. They'll no doubt release "data" from the black box conflicting with data already in the public domain in an attempt to excuse themselves. No doubt they'll also dispose of as much evidence of missile strike as they can - illogical as it may be to cover up evidence of something that you claim someone else did.

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#1092860 21-Jul-2014 10:44

Fred99:
pinkydot: I don't understand why people blaming the airline. Is it because of MH370 incident happen before & straight away you think the airline fault again?
What if it was Singapore Airline SQ351 at that time? Would you think differently? They both flying the same route at that time.
Why not just blame the agency who approve the route?

Just an event that nobody want it to happen.

I suspect that a lot of "blaming the airline" results from an orchestrated campaign of pro-Russia shill posts on the 'net.
The militants seem intent on seizing the evidence, supposedly they have the flight recorders. They'll no doubt release "data" from the black box conflicting with data already in the public domain in an attempt to excuse themselves. No doubt they'll also dispose of as much evidence of missile strike as they can - illogical as it may be to cover up evidence of something that you claim someone else did.

I doubt they could remove all parts of the fuselage or elsewhere that were pierced and had explosive resdue left over, they wouldn't know what to do.

I recall an Air Crash Investigartion ep that went back over a shot down aircraft, shot down byUSSR in the Cold War era. The black boxes were takem, kept in a safe for years. The dude whose office it was, had guilt, so when the wall came down, or after, he released the boxes. Interesting. Newsworthy if Russia digs its toes in.

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#1092862 21-Jul-2014 10:52

we have seen some wreckage loaded on a truck and taken to unknown destination. It wont be feasible or possible for the rebels to remove it all. It certainly will be possible and most likely already done that they have removed all missile debri they can find so no data plates with manufacturing date etc etc can be found to tie the missile to any group or country conclusively

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#1092863 21-Jul-2014 10:55

I was interested to see what the Russians have in their media. A quick Google (here is the search I used) suggests they are blaming everyone else on the State-controlled media.

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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#1092878 21-Jul-2014 10:56

Interesting article on the 'wikipedia-edit-battle' here.

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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#1092879 21-Jul-2014 10:56

Gilco2: we have seen some wreckage loaded on a truck and taken to unknown destination. It wont be feasible or possible for the rebels to remove it all. It certainly will be possible and most likely already done that they have removed all missile debri they can find so no data plates with manufacturing date etc etc can be found to tie the missile to any group or country conclusively

With the help of their large friendly neighbour it is very conceivable that the *cough* Rebels could remove the wreckage.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1092910 21-Jul-2014 11:34

The first thing to die in a war is the truth... The USSR was always good at altering photo evidence, I guess Russian keep the tradition... In times of Wikipedia is even easier.

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#1092912 21-Jul-2014 11:37

freitasm: The first thing to die in a war is the truth... The USSR was always good at altering photo evidence, I guess Russian keep the tradition... In times of Wikipedia is even easier.

They are certainly better at it than North Korea

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#1092930 21-Jul-2014 11:48

I for once do not believe that Russia has anything to do with this.

1. There is no tactical benefit/advantage for Russia or Rebel to do this. It was reported in Ukraine news that the Rebel has no capability of shooting down the plane. The rebels did not even have bulletproof vest!

2. I also found it extremely stupid when Obama states in the press conference that he does not know who shot the plane down. Despite not knowing who did it, he quickly blame this on Putin and want him accountable.

3. Russia is NOT USSR. Russia has gone through a lot of change.

4. The president of DPR has been asking again and again in their press conferences to have experts visiting the crash site ASAP. It is amazing that Ukraine govt is extremely slow at getting them to the crash site - it is like they have no interest whatsoever. In the meantime, they have to remove the bodies. They do however take photos etc before removing the bodies (for family identification purpose, preserving the bodies).

5. I will not put the blame on Russia/DPR until the evidence is there for me to see.

6. Western media loves to spew hate and potraying Russia as a bad country. What happen to Iraq? How many civilians are dead there. What about US openly supports those nasty rebels in Syria & Libya?

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#1092953 21-Jul-2014 12:24

nakedmolerat: I for once do not believe that Russia has anything to do with this.

1. There is no tactical benefit/advantage for Russia or Rebel to do this. It was reported in Ukraine news that the Rebel has no capability of shooting down the plane. The rebels did not even have bulletproof vest!

I understand that two Ukrainian military transport aircraft have been shot down in recent weeks by pro-Russian rebels. As far as I know the pro-Russian rebels have no capability of identifying aircraft at high altitude. I therefore consider it likely that they were not specifically targeting a commercial airliner, and the people who pulled the trigger did so believing they were shooting at a Ukrainian aircraft.

You are correct that the rebels themselves seem to have few resources. A Russian-made (according to commentary I have seen accompanying am image of this unit with only 2 of 4 missiles installed) mobile missile launcher in pro-Russian rebel-held territory strikes me as highly-likely to have been Russian-supplied. I would think anyone supplying this sort of hardware is likely to send it out with an operator.

Russian state media is reporting the shooting was done by the Ukranians, even though the shot came from pro-Russian rebel-held territory.

freitasm: The first thing to die in a war is the truth...

I have little doubt this is true, even from the 'good guys' at times.

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

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#1092962 21-Jul-2014 12:47

nakedmolerat: I for once do not believe that Russia has anything to do with this.

>??? where did the missile come from ???!

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#1092967 21-Jul-2014 12:55

nakedmolerat:3. Russia is NOT USSR. Russia has gone through a lot of change.

Russia is not USSR. Agree. But Russian president is ex-KGB How do you suppose that happened exactly?

edit: +Russian media is extremely state compliant. Russian journalists frequently mysteriously intimidated and mysteriously killed with little police interest etc (vs old system of putting in prison and mental asylum)

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#1092972 21-Jul-2014 13:12

I am of the belief that Putin has desires to re-establish a greater Russian Empire, I believe he has designs on Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Georgia. He also does not want these states coming under Europe.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

nakedmolerat

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#1092982 21-Jul-2014 13:27

gzt:
nakedmolerat:3. Russia is NOT USSR. Russia has gone through a lot of change.

Russia is not USSR. Agree. But Russian president is ex-KGB How do you suppose that happened exactly?

So?

I have one simple question for you. Have you been following what happen in Ukraine since Maidan?

edit: +Russian media is extremely state compliant and removes previous articles that contradict new official story. Russian journalists frequently mysteriously intimidated and mysteriously killed with little police interest etc (vs old system of putting in prison and mental asylum)

So is BBC and CNN etc. Prior to 1990, there are 50 different corporation providing western news. Nowadays, there are less than 5. Do you think Western media is much better than Russian media? Remember News of the World? Aidan White clearly states that western medias are politically bias - but apparently this is acceptable/ethical as they are following the universally accepted ideology (read it as western ideology)

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#1092983 21-Jul-2014 13:27

KiwiNZ: I am of the belief that Putin has desires to re-establish a greater Russian Empire, I believe he has designs on Ukraine, Moldova, Belarus, Georgia. He also does not want these states coming under Europe.

This may be so. Personally I believe he is not a meglomaniac but that he has chosen this strategy of nationalism and extreme nationalism to ensure he and his freinds and sponsors stay in power and achieve financial objectives. In this sense I see him as little different from George.W Bush. Just a different country and history but still a politition out for maximum gain.

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