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Scott3

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  #3067620 24-Apr-2023 13:26
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Technofreak:

 

At the present time there is no alternative. Banning leaded avgas will wipe out operations that use piston engined aircraft. I would suggest that while the effects of TEL aren't good you have to take into consideration how small the aviation contribution to the pollution caused by TEL is and the benefits provided by that aviation activity. 

 

 

 

Unfortunately there are some groups of people who will nevet accept compromise. Everything we do has an impact sometimes negative even though there is an overall benefit but because there is a negative impact some people will want it banned.

 

 

There are alternatives:

 

  • Electric training aircraft are available.
  • Aircraft certified
  • Aircraft (generally at the smaller / slower end of the GA spectrum) are available that certified to run MOGAS (automotive petrol). This includes stuff like the Tecnam P2006T, which can provide a complex training environment for their students (twin engine, retractable gear).
  • Swift Fuels (USA based), currently produces UL94 (basically 100LL without lead), which satisfies the minimum octane requirements of 66% of the US piston fleet as a drop in replacement.
  • Turbine aircraft (i.e. Cessna caravan for commercial sightseeing & very thin commercial routes like Great Barrier Island)
  • Jet A / Diesel piston aircraft (i.e. Tecnam P2010 TDI) - Rare, but another option that is on the market.

So in a short period (assuming a similar fleet makeup to the USA), we could transition 2/3rd's of our piston fleet to unleaded fuels. 

 

In the USA, you have some flight schools already making the change away from leaded fuel: https://blogs.und.edu/und-today/2022/07/und-aerospace-getting-the-lead-out/

 

Even in the absence of higher octane fuels, I question if (other then the flying of classic / antique aircraft), if there are significant general aviation purpose that could not be filled by UL94, mogas or turbines. (obviously, there would be quite a number of aircraft that are not economic / viable to modify to be compatible with 94UL /Mogas / JetAq

 

 

 

Then of course you have the recent FAA approval of G100UL. A functional drop in replacement for 100LL. Production volumes are still at low level (for testing), but now there is a path to unleaded fuel for aviation engines requiring 100 octane.

 

 

 

Given the above, I feel that planning a phase out of TEL use in Aviation (and motorsport) is reasonable. On compromise, GA has been given plenty. For road vehicles, the leaded fuel phase-out started in 1986. I don't feel discussing phase out options in 2023 is out of line.

 

This is an extremely nasty chemical with no safe exposure limit. Exposure from aviation is sufficient that children living near airfields in the US have detectable quantities in their blood.

 

 

 

Even ignoring the health impact on the general population, I think it is in the GA industries best interest to move away from TEL. We are down to a production plant globally. If anything happened to that plant that stopped production, GA would need to make the shift very fast, with any phase-out limited to stock on hand (Doubt anybody else would want to invest in a TEL production facility given much of the USA GA industry is committed to stopping using it in 7 years). In an NZ context, there is also a risk that the import terminal might not want to deal with leaded fuel anymore.... Low volumes, but high risks to workers when it comes to stuff like internal tank inspections.




PolicyGuy
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  #3067621 24-Apr-2023 13:30
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SomeoneSomewhere:

 

If the FAA is certifying a new fuel as a drop-in replacement without need to certify every engine/airframe type individually, that sounds like a pretty good alternative. Granted, it's still a few years out to hit actual mass production.

 

An STC is available for purchase right now, and has been since September 2022

 

the FAA has approved supplemental type certificates (STCs) for the use of General Aviation Modifications Inc.’s G100UL 100-octane unleaded avgas in all general aviation piston aircraft.

 

https://www.avweb.com/ownership/fuel-news/gami-unleaded-avgas-stcs-approved-for-ga-piston-fleet/

 

All we need now is to persuade General Aviation Modifications Inc to appoint a local (or maybe Aussie) firm to manufacture & distribute their G100UL 100-octane unleaded avgas product here. However I can't see that happening unless the environmental authorities set a hard and fairly close-in drop dead date for TEL in any fuel.

 

 

 

More information here: https://www.avweb.com/ownership/fuel-news/gami-begins-g100ul-stc-sales/

 

 


Scott3

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  #3067629 24-Apr-2023 13:41
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frankv:

 

Not all piston engines... Rotax recommends using 95 mogas (ordinary car petrol). They're very widespread in 2-seat aircraft. Whilst in the past they have only made 80 & 100hp engines, they've recently announced the 916is at 160hp which I expect will over time take a chunk of the 4-seat light aircraft market. Rotax's progression towards larger engines is clear, and will take out  Lycoming and Continental eventually.

 

One difficulty with using Mogas is that it's not available at airfields, partly because there's more demand for 100LL (kindof chicken-and-egg), but also partly because it's less stable than 100LL so goes stale quicker, so fuel can't be left in the tank for as long, so requires lots of small replenishments.

 

 

Any idea what current Mogas approved planes do in NZ?

 

Understand for most Rotax engines, Mogas (95RON+) is the preferred fuel, and gets longer maintenance intervals, so i imagine operators would be keen to run mogas.

 

But something like a P2008 LSA (120 Liters of tanks), or a P200T (2000L of tanks), is getting a bit inconvenient to fill from tote tanks. Do people just have lots of tote tanks, have ute / trailer tanks, or just run leaded fuel where there is no Mogas on their home airfeild?

 

 

 

For recreational operators, refunds on road tax is not available when normal petrol is used off road (also impacts boaties), where as 100LL is exempt. Gives (ignoring the current 25c discount) a 60c tax advantage to the leaded fuel (71c in Auckland). Not sure what the actual price of 100LL, but it is disappointing that government policy favors the nastier fuel.




Scott3

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  #3067634 24-Apr-2023 14:01
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PolicyGuy:

 

...

 

https://www.avweb.com/ownership/fuel-news/gami-unleaded-avgas-stcs-approved-for-ga-piston-fleet/

 

All we need now is to persuade General Aviation Modifications Inc to appoint a local (or maybe Aussie) firm to manufacture & distribute their G100UL 100-octane unleaded avgas product here. However I can't see that happening unless the environmental authorities set a hard and fairly close-in drop dead date for TEL in any fuel.

 

 

 

More information here: https://www.avweb.com/ownership/fuel-news/gami-begins-g100ul-stc-sales/

 

 

One of the bigger barriers for General Aviation Modifications Inc.’s G100UL (Pity we are entering an era of proprietary fuels), growth seems to be demand projection.

 

There is a speculation the fuel will cost 50 to 80c / Gal more than 100LL. At this price point, where it is not mandated, they will likely sell little, and where it is they will sell a lot.

 

Add to this, the GA market is becoming more fragmented fuel wise.

 

Mogas / Electric / 94UL / Jet A / Diesel / G100UL.

 

In the USA, we already have entire large flight schools committing to 94UL. Fair assumption they won't be interested in the likely substantially more expensive G100UL. And at the same time Rotax plane operators will be keen on Mogas...

So how much demand should General Aviation Modifications Inc. tool up for? Are countries like NZ going to be fast followers, and move away from 100LL in say 2032, or are going to drag the chain out for a few more decades (perhaps untill electric small planes go mainstream?). Not an easy question to answer, unless countries start setting TEL end dates.

 

 

 

 


frankv
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  #3067639 24-Apr-2023 14:22
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Scott3:

 

Any idea what current Mogas approved planes do in NZ?

 

Understand for most Rotax engines, Mogas (95RON+) is the preferred fuel, and gets longer maintenance intervals, so i imagine operators would be keen to run mogas.

 

But something like a P2008 LSA (120 Liters of tanks), or a P200T (2000L of tanks), is getting a bit inconvenient to fill from tote tanks. Do people just have lots of tote tanks, have ute / trailer tanks, or just run leaded fuel where there is no Mogas on their home airfeild?

 

For recreational operators, refunds on road tax is not available when normal petrol is used off road (also impacts boaties), where as 100LL is exempt. Gives (ignoring the current 25c discount) a 60c tax advantage to the leaded fuel (71c in Auckland). Not sure what the actual price of 100LL, but it is disappointing that government policy favors the nastier fuel.

 

 

Our club buys 95 from the local petrol station in 20L containers. Last purchase was about $400. These go into a tank in the hangar from which the club aircraft aircraft are refueled. This avoids issues with spills and overfilling and scratching wings with containers and lifting containers onto high wings. (One aircraft we had had a built-in fuel pump to suck fuel out of a container on the ground into the tanks).

 

I run my aircraft (Subaru-powered) exclusively on 95, refueled from 20L containers. The previous owner ran it exclusively on 100LL.

 

Another group at our airfield has a 200L (I think) tanker trailer.

 

At another airfield, the accepted wisdom is surprisingly that 100LL is better, despite Rotax recommending 95. I think they prefer it because it doesn't go stale as quickly. So they run all their aircraft, including Rotax-powered, on 100LL.

 

When away from home, we may carry a full 20L to refuel if that's enough to get us home, or maybe a couple of empty 20L containers if we can get someone to run us to a petrol station (big fly-ins often organize someone with a ute to do a fuel run), otherwise 100LL.

 

Yes, it's irritating paying essentially RUC when you're not using a road. Although there's a tax advantage for 100LL, it's still 50c to a $1 more per litre than 95 (everything with "av" in the name is more expensive). But the bigger disincentive for Rotax owners is the lead buildup, and the oil change needed after running 100LL.

 

[Edit] Those 120L & 200L tanks will only be filled if going far, probably a few times a year. So probably a livable pain point for filling from drums.


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