Travel Bubble to Cooks

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#2540214 13-Aug-2020 13:37

I guess this is off the table now. Cook Islands dodged a bullet. Never should have been considered because of what we are seeing unfold this week.

Mike

tdgeek

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#2540225 13-Aug-2020 13:48

MikeAqua:

I guess this is off the table now. Cook Islands dodged a bullet. Never should have been considered because of what we are seeing unfold this week.

I get that. But, what you are saying is no country can ever have a travel bubble with another? Not until Covid is eliminated globally. No, you are not saying that but in fact if a bubble is to safe, we need to be covid free and have no incoming people at all. But once we know where this outbreak originated frpm we will know more

wellygary

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#2540228 13-Aug-2020 13:49

Cooks have now moved to require testing and quarantining of travellers returning from NZ (Cook islanders and residents)

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/423361/the-cook-islands-tightens-borders-over-nz-covid-cases

MikeAqua

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#2540235 13-Aug-2020 14:05

tdgeek:

MikeAqua:

I guess this is off the table now. Cook Islands dodged a bullet. Never should have been considered because of what we are seeing unfold this week.

I get that. But, what you are saying is no country can ever have a travel bubble with another? Not until Covid is eliminated globally. No, you are not saying that but in fact if a bubble is to safe, we need to be covid free and have no incoming people at all. But once we know where this outbreak originated frpm we will know more

I'm saying

If we had opened bubble a couple of 4 weeks ago, we might have an outbreak in the Cooks right now (which I understand to be vulnerable population in a country with limited ICU capacity)
We aren't as clever as we thought we were (pride/complacency comes before a fall etc)

I'm feeling really relieved we haven't opened a bubble and people in the Cooks are still safe from COVID.

The long term solution is IMO either: -

Vaccine
Virus attenuates and becomes less virulent

Mike

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#2540239 13-Aug-2020 14:09

Russia have declared a virus vaccine ready. Reportedly, Putin gave his Daughter the vaccine.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12355763

Apologies if this has already been posted tl; dr

xlinknz

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#2540240 13-Aug-2020 14:09

wellygary:

Cooks have now moved to require testing and quarantining of travellers returning from NZ (Cook islanders and residents)

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/423361/the-cook-islands-tightens-borders-over-nz-covid-cases

These new border controls now in place by Te Marae Ora (Cooks MoH) and the Cooks Govt i.e. testing on exit from NZ (and those that arrived in the last 2 weeks) potentially pave the way for a) a mechanism for NZ citizens to visit if the Cooks-NZ bubble does not occur b) augment the bubble if and when it occurs

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MikeAqua

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#2540243 13-Aug-2020 14:14

xlinknz:

These new border controls now in place by Te Marae Ora (Cooks MoH) and the Cooks Govt i.e. testing on exit from NZ (and those that arrived in the last 2 weeks) potentially pave the way for a) a mechanism for NZ citizens to visit if the Cooks-NZ bubble does not occur b) augment the bubble if and when it occurs

How/where would a well person get test prior to departure? Official advice is (very sensibly) if you are asymptomatic, you should stay away from testing centres.

Or would there be testing at the airport prior to departure?

Mike

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#2540244 13-Aug-2020 14:14

MikeAqua:

I'm saying

If we had opened bubble a couple of 4 weeks ago, we might have an outbreak in the Cooks right now (which I understand to be vulnerable population in a country with limited ICU capacity)
We aren't as clever as we thought we were (pride/complacency comes before a fall etc)
I'm feeling really relieved we haven't opened a bubble and people in the Cooks are still safe from COVID.

The long term solution is IMO either: -

Vaccine
Virus attenuates and becomes less virulent

Im not disagreeing but it shows you cannot have a bubble if you have any contact with anywhere outside NZ. Same with us and Tasmania when they were clean. Meanwhile Cooks are going broke, etc.

Its like do you want to be punched in the left eye or the right eye?

wellygary

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#2540249 13-Aug-2020 14:32

xlinknz:

wellygary:

Cooks have now moved to require testing and quarantining of travellers returning from NZ (Cook islanders and residents)

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/423361/the-cook-islands-tightens-borders-over-nz-covid-cases

These new border controls now in place by Te Marae Ora (Cooks MoH) and the Cooks Govt i.e. testing on exit from NZ (and those that arrived in the last 2 weeks) potentially pave the way for a) a mechanism for NZ citizens to visit if the Cooks-NZ bubble does not occur b) augment the bubble if and when it occurs

Not really ,

14 days of quarantine in the Cooks ( maybe possible in a resort, but at the moment not) , then 14 days on return to NZ + a hefty quarantine payment of $4-5K for a family. getting a month off work would be a big ask for most people

http://www.cookislandsnews.com/national/health/item/78073-cooks-border-remains-open-despite-covid-19-cases-in-nz

MikeAqua

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#2540250 13-Aug-2020 14:33

tdgeek:

Im not disagreeing but it shows you cannot have a bubble if you have any contact with anywhere outside NZ. Same with us and Tasmania when they were clean. Meanwhile Cooks are going broke, etc.

Its like do you want to be punched in the left eye or the right eye?

Agree and it sucks. But that is where we are until we can handle the virus better.

Mike

xlinknz

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#2540251 13-Aug-2020 14:33

MikeAqua:

xlinknz:

These new border controls now in place by Te Marae Ora (Cooks MoH) and the Cooks Govt i.e. testing on exit from NZ (and those that arrived in the last 2 weeks) potentially pave the way for a) a mechanism for NZ citizens to visit if the Cooks-NZ bubble does not occur b) augment the bubble if and when it occurs

How/where would a well person get test prior to departure? Official advice is (very sensibly) if you are asymptomatic, you should stay away from testing centres.

Or would there be testing at the airport prior to departure?

French Polynesia require a negative test prior to entry too. I assume this would be done by your GP or similar. Perhaps they would also require a test on arrival

In regards to your earlier comment on the risk of an earlier Cooks bubble, note that 500 people have already entered the Cooks with no bubble in place (Cooks passport holders, permanent residents and those with approved work permits and 30 days in NZ) and no testing was done. My point being the Cooks could have already had Covid without the bubble as the assumption being no Covid-19 existed in NZ or you had no symptoms.

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#2540261 13-Aug-2020 14:52

MikeAqua:

I guess this is off the table now. Cook Islands dodged a bullet. Never should have been considered because of what we are seeing unfold this week.

It is likely off the table now yes, but I disagree that the Cook Islands dodged a bullet, even with what is currently unfolding.

It appears that NZ's Covid-19 surveillance is sufficient to pick up large clusters in the community.

The cook islands could (and likely would) close it's border within hours of community transmission of Covid-19 in NZ.

The odds of one of the few (under 100) infected people out of 5,000,000 people in NZ traveling to the cook islands in the days between community infection occurring & getting picked up and announced is very, very low.

MikeAqua

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#2540325 13-Aug-2020 16:09

Scott3:

It appears that NZ's Covid-19 surveillance is sufficient to pick up large clusters in the community.

That's a bold claim given what is unfolding and some experts suggesting there may still be dozens of unknown cases in the community.

Surveillance didn't pick this up (e.g. randomly testing people at a supermarket, or asking high risk workers to self check for symptoms). Testing suspected cases did.

Mike

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#2540346 13-Aug-2020 16:37

MikeAqua:

Scott3:

It appears that NZ's Covid-19 surveillance is sufficient to pick up large clusters in the community.

That's a bold claim given what is unfolding and some experts suggesting there may still be dozens of unknown cases in the community.

Surveillance didn't pick this up (e.g. randomly testing people at a supermarket, or asking high risk workers to self check for symptoms). Testing suspected cases did.

My understanding is that the testing of people with respiratory / influenza like symptoms is considered surveillance.

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/surveillance_plan_v4.1-210720.pdf

You are likely correct that we will find dozens more connected cases in the coming day's. This is not inconsistent with my less than 100 estimate.

100/5000000 = 0.002% incidence rate in the population.

The odds that one of these cases ended up in the cook islands in the week or two prior tow detection & announcement are very small.

xlinknz

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#2540350 13-Aug-2020 16:50

Scott3:

MikeAqua:

I guess this is off the table now. Cook Islands dodged a bullet. Never should have been considered because of what we are seeing unfold this week.

It is likely off the table now yes, but I disagree that the Cook Islands dodged a bullet, even with what is currently unfolding.

It appears that NZ's Covid-19 surveillance is sufficient to pick up large clusters in the community.

The cook islands could (and likely would) close it's border within hours of community transmission of Covid-19 in NZ.

The odds of one of the few (under 100) infected people out of 5,000,000 people in NZ traveling to the cook islands in the days between community infection occurring & getting picked up and announced is very, very low.

The Cooks border is still open to NZ for those that have Cooks passports, permanent residency and a Cooks approved work permit. The change that occurred as a result of NZ Community Transmission yesterday was that the before mentioned persons now require a negative test before departure and supervised quarantine in the Cooks on arrival

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