MH 17 "shot down" all dead

Forums › Travel (planes, train, cruise) › MH 17 "shot down" all dead

1 | ... | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14

18692 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#1092656 20-Jul-2014 20:16

tdgeek:
networkn: Anyone know how I can tell what route NZ to Singapore, Singapore to Milan takes? I recently won a trip and am feeling a little anxious and I am not the best flyer at the best of times?

Try http://flightaware.com I recall that was what I read. Go to the Airline Flight Tracker on the left, and on the right are the waypoints. It has a map with the route
If you know the flight numbers, you can get the info you need based on the expected flight plan

I found http://www.flightradar24.com/ easier to use overall.

From memory the only area of potential and occasional conflict is the Spratly Islands and some other areas in the south china sea. Iirc: conflict so far has been minor naval things with firehoses and such and some very small fishing boats sunk, China has mapped some of the area as a restricted air zone, which the US military ignores. I would guess civilian air traffic stays away but don't know. Interestingly, it appears to me (unconfirmed) carriers taking US advice were staying away from the Ukraine/Millitia/Russia conflict areas, but others were continuing.

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1092657 20-Jul-2014 20:20

gzt:
tdgeek:
networkn: Anyone know how I can tell what route NZ to Singapore, Singapore to Milan takes? I recently won a trip and am feeling a little anxious and I am not the best flyer at the best of times?

Try http://flightaware.com I recall that was what I read. Go to the Airline Flight Tracker on the left, and on the right are the waypoints. It has a map with the route
If you know the flight numbers, you can get the info you need based on the expected flight plan

I found http://www.flightradar24.com/ easier to use overall.

From memory the only area of potential and occasional conflict is the Spratly Islands and some other areas in the south china sea. Iirc: conflict so far has been minor naval things with firehoses and such and some very small fishing boats sunk, China has mapped some of the area as a restricted air zone, which the US military ignores. I would guess civilian air traffic stays away but don't know. Interestingly, it appears to me (unconfirmed) carriers taking US advice were staying away from the Ukraine/Millitia/Russia conflict areas, but others were continuing.

Flightradar is live only? I think networkn wants a way to check the flight path of a future flight

gzt

18692 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#1092659 20-Jul-2014 20:22

Nope. History goes back a couple of months.

Technofreak

6657 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3477

Trusted

#1092666 20-Jul-2014 20:40

tdgeek:
The only means is to create an enforceable regulator to enforce no fly zones, and these have to cover all conflicts. So what is a conflict? Who can determine what capability any conflict has at their disposal? A complete re write of civil aviation to add to the need for 100% radar coverage as per MH 370. A full re hash of flight routes internationally.

Have a look here to see where the conflicts are in the World. Airlines fly over these areas everyday. In some cases it's almost impossible to avoid some of these areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

The downing of MH17 is pretty well a random chance event. Wrong place wrong time. I'm surprised the has been no retaliation of any sort. If it had a N or G number on the tail I bet there might have been some action by now.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

Dynamic

4016 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1853

ID Verified

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1092669 20-Jul-2014 20:45

networkn: Anyone know how I can tell what route NZ to Singapore, Singapore to Milan takes? I recently won a trip and am feeling a little anxious and I am not the best flyer at the best of times?

All non-local airlines are now avoiding the area. A good look at Flightradar24.com should satisfy you of this. The only planes flying over that side of Ukraine are the local/Russian airlines.

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” Douglas Adams

tdgeek

30048 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 9455

Trusted

Lifetime subscriber

#1092671 20-Jul-2014 20:47

gzt: Nope. History goes back a couple of months.

Tks, didn't know that, never used the desktop version till today

New World

Shop on-line at New World now for your groceries (affiliate link).

gzt

18692 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#1092672 20-Jul-2014 20:47

Technofreak:
tdgeek:
The only means is to create an enforceable regulator to enforce no fly zones, and these have to cover all conflicts. So what is a conflict? Who can determine what capability any conflict has at their disposal? A complete re write of civil aviation to add to the need for 100% radar coverage as per MH 370. A full re hash of flight routes internationally.

Have a look here to see where the conflicts are in the World. Airlines fly over these areas everyday. In some cases it's almost impossible to avoid some of these areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

The downing of MH17 is pretty well a random chance event. Wrong place wrong time. I'm surprised the has been no retaliation of any sort. If it had a N or G number on the tail I bet there might have been some action by now.

Armed conflict per se is not the issue. The issue is when the airspace becomes contested by military force, as it clearly was in the area under discussion prior to this tragic event.

pinkydot

247 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 38

#1092680 20-Jul-2014 21:04

I don't understand why people blaming the airline. Is it because of MH370 incident happen before & straight away you think the airline fault again?
What if it was Singapore Airline SQ351 at that time? Would you think differently? They both flying the same route at that time.
Why not just blame the agency who approve the route?

Just an event that nobody want it to happen.

gzt

18692 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#1092691 20-Jul-2014 21:25

pinkydot:What if it was Singapore Airline SQ351 at that time? Would you think differently?

Not at all. It could have easily been another airline. This could have happened to any airline continuing to fly this route.

gzt

18692 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#1092712 20-Jul-2014 21:43

pinkydot: Why not just blame the agency who approve the route?

Just to be clear, this is not a question of blame. It is a question of responsibility.

Qantas and Korean Air made a decision to avoid this entire area months ago of their own volition. Other airlines continued to fly this route including British Airways and Swiss. If their planes had been lost as a result they would also must accept responsibility for the decision to continue to fly, and the public in those countries and their customers would question that decision. It is no different.

MikeB4

MikeB4
18776 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 12769

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#1092717 20-Jul-2014 21:56

The responsibility for this atrocity is with who ever targeted and fired the missile, those who ordered it and those who enabled it.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

Lenovo

Shop now for Lenovo laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

gzt

18692 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#1092719 20-Jul-2014 22:05

Yes that is where the responsibility for the atrocity comes to rest. But the airline is still responsible for the decision to fly the route, and the regulatory agencies are still responsible for the decision to keep the route available. You don't get off scott free for flying through contested airspace. You don't get off scott free for directing traffic through contested airspace. Big changes are due.

Technofreak

6657 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3477

Trusted

#1092818 21-Jul-2014 09:34

gzt: Armed conflict per se is not the issue. The issue is when the airspace becomes contested by military force, as it clearly was in the area under discussion prior to this tragic event.

So you're saying the airspace over all those other conflicts isn't contested? I'd suggest it probably is.

MH17 was above the highest level of the disputed airspace, they weren't inside contested airspace.

Sony Xperia XA2 running Sailfish OS. https://sailfishos.org The true independent open source mobile OS
Samsung Galaxy Tab S6
Dell Inspiron 14z i5

gzt

18692 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 7830

Lifetime subscriber

#1092840 21-Jul-2014 10:04

First of all that link highlights entire countries, not just conflict areas. Second the airspace was clearly contested and the airlines were taking a calculated risk flying there. Now they must accept responsibility for that decision.

It appears to me that KAL with the experience of being shot down in 1983 has a far more conservative approach and chose to avoid the area entirely. Good decision.

Signature goes here.

cyberhub

224 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 22

#1092850 21-Jul-2014 10:24

Sad news indeed, the world is a little crazy at the moment

CyberHub - Hosting Made Simple

1 | ... | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14