Christopher Luxon, New Zealand Prime Minister 2023

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#3221754 23-Apr-2024 10:28

sir1963:

Bluntj:

Question is...why should the taxpayer be paying for your kids lunch so as to save you some effort?

I agree that there should be some kind of lunch program as some parents seem to be unable to deliver, but perhaps not for all.

But you are happy to pay $150k a year to keep people in prison for longer ?

Scandinavian countries have a different approach...treat people as humans, and it WORKS.

Scenario 1: If someone came up to me and said give me $150k or I'll stab you to death VS

Scenario 2: If someone came up to me and said give me $150k or you'll have to make your kids lunch yourself

More likely I'll just try best I can, especially since the serious crime criminal has put a dollar figure on my life.
Not sure what is the best option here, $2/sandwich while I make lunch for myself to take to work or get tax payer to pay for it regardless of the cost because it saves me 2minutes and $2/sandwich

Update: Also since you mentioned "Scandinavian" countries - probably worth mentioning their economy is insanely robust with a ton of "free" money from oil and mining. Get NZ to start mining for oil, coal, minerals and there you go, plenty of money for ALL dream projects of all political parties combined. $2 lunch or $150k expense to treat repeat serious crime criminals like humans, won't be expensive.

"Norway had the highest market value for oil and natural gas among Nordic countries as of 2022. In that year, Norway's oil and gas market value amounted to approximately 27.05 billion U.S. dollars. This was more than 10 billion U.S. dollars higher than the market value in neighboring Sweden."

SaltyNZ

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#3221761 23-Apr-2024 10:57

Bluntj:

Question is...why should the taxpayer be paying for your kids lunch so as to save you some effort?

I agree that there should be some kind of lunch program as some parents seem to be unable to deliver, but perhaps not for all.

Because, as with every other attempt at means testing, it ends up costing more in admin overhead than it saves in sandwiches. It also causes or exacerbates existing class divisions if the poor kids have to have the government lunch because their mums don't love them and the rich kids get roast lamb and vegetables from home.

When everyone eats the same, you get increased economy of scale.

When everyone eats the same, nobody has to know that this is the only food you're going to get today until baked beans on toast for dinner because that's all your parents can afford.

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sir1963

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#3221763 23-Apr-2024 11:00

thinkingtrex8848:

Scenario 1: If someone came up to me and said give me $150k or I'll stab you to death VS

Scenario 2: If someone came up to me and said give me $150k or you'll have to make your kids lunch yourself

More likely I'll just try best I can, especially since the serious crime criminal has put a dollar figure on my life.
Not sure what is the best option here, $2/sandwich while I make lunch for myself to take to work or get tax payer to pay for it regardless of the cost because it saves me 2minutes and $2/sandwich

Update: Also since you mentioned "Scandinavian" countries - probably worth mentioning their economy is insanely robust with a ton of "free" money from oil and mining. Get NZ to start mining for oil, coal, minerals and there you go, plenty of money for ALL dream projects of all political parties combined. $2 lunch or $150k expense to treat repeat serious crime criminals like humans, won't be expensive.

"Norway had the highest market value for oil and natural gas among Nordic countries as of 2022. In that year, Norway's oil and gas market value amounted to approximately 27.05 billion U.S. dollars. This was more than 10 billion U.S. dollars higher than the market value in neighboring Sweden."

Your argument is a strawman . Think of the situation more like vaccines vs treatment.
Also kids in primary schools are 10+ years away from the age they can become a real problem , people have divorced themselves by then of the connection.

The $150k is per person, per year. Stop just 6 kids per year being in prison and you have nearly $1M saved, 2nd year $2M, 3rd Year $3M... and that does not include the costs of law enforcement + impacts on victims.

Probably worth mentioning too that Norways in a country, it is not the whole of Scandinavia , this applies to seeded, finland, etc etc too. The Dutch have been closing prisons because they had no one to put in them.
Recidivism rates are about 1/3 of those in the USA.

Brutality has NEVER worked.

ockel

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#3221788 23-Apr-2024 12:26

thinkingtrex8848: School lunch program definitely saves me having to spend extra couple of minutes when I make my lunch to take to work. Cost me about a couple of dollars for an extra sandwich but I’m glad school lunch program saves me the money and the time and effort I need to put into making a couple of sandwiches for my kids.

Would love to see you have the discussion explaining to parents why their school cant access learning support for their kids cos the funding is used to provide free lunches to save you a little time and money.

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#3221789 23-Apr-2024 12:34

sir1963: Also kids in primary schools are 10+ years away from the age they can become a real problem

It's a good point. Some of the research seems narrowly focused. Most countries have school lunch provision for good reasons found necessary over a long period of time for multiple different reasons some of which are not included in research I've seen quoted.

sir1963

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#3221790 23-Apr-2024 12:34

ockel:

thinkingtrex8848: School lunch program definitely saves me having to spend extra couple of minutes when I make my lunch to take to work. Cost me about a couple of dollars for an extra sandwich but I’m glad school lunch program saves me the money and the time and effort I need to put into making a couple of sandwiches for my kids.

Would love to see you have the discussion explaining to parents why their school cant access learning support for their kids cos the funding is used to provide free lunches to save you a little time and money.

I was a parent of a special needs child well before school lunches was a thing, and I can tell you now it has ALWAYS been underfunded and the lunches have nothing to do with it.

How about having proper sex education at schools (including LGBTQ+ needs), Talk about porn, Talk about how it is NOT real, Talk about peer pressure, and make it compulsory so NOT CHILD misses out on vital information
How about having FREE contraception available at schools, pharmacies, doctors, youth centres, etc.
How about stop punishing the kids, no child ever chose its parents, so blaming the parents so you can justify punishing the kids is just disgusting.

thinkingtrex8848

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#3221791 23-Apr-2024 12:36

sir1963:

Brutality has NEVER worked.

For sure. If by Brutal, you mean ONLY affecting serious criminals and after multiple warnings...

Actually, I also believe in kindness regardless of the fact that serious criminal is committing serious crimes repeatedly after multiple warnings.

Kindness without any consequences must be the solution.

After all, love conquers everything.

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sir1963

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#3221793 23-Apr-2024 12:37

gzt:
sir1963: Also kids in primary schools are 10+ years away from the age they can become a real problem

It's a good point. Some of the research seems narrowly focused. Most countries have school lunch provision for good reasons found necessary over a long period of time for multiple different reasons some of which is not included in research I've seen quoted.

Governments like results they can claim ownership of within their term in office, something that takes 10-15 years to show up is of no use politically.

They all rely on the lack of long term memory of failure to haul out dog whistle solutions so they can get the populist vote.

thinkingtrex8848

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#3221794 23-Apr-2024 12:38

sir1963:

I was a parent of a special needs child well before school lunches was a thing, and I can tell you now it has ALWAYS been underfunded and the lunches have nothing to do with it.

How about having proper sex education at schools (including LGBTQ+ needs), Talk about porn, Talk about how it is NOT real, Talk about peer pressure, and make it compulsory so NOT CHILD misses out on vital information
How about having FREE contraception available at schools, pharmacies, doctors, youth centres, etc.
How about stop punishing the kids, no child ever chose its parents, so blaming the parents so you can justify punishing the kids is just disgusting.

I agree with everything you said above and sorry to hear you had to go through this personally.

Also, if lunches have nothing to do with it, then would there be much impact of removing/adding more lunch programme?

sir1963

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#3221795 23-Apr-2024 12:39

thinkingtrex8848:

sir1963:

Brutality has NEVER worked.

For sure. If by Brutal, you mean ONLY affecting serious criminals and after multiple warnings...

Actually, I also believe in kindness regardless of the fact that serious criminal is committing serious crimes repeatedly after multiple warnings.

Kindness without any consequences must be the solution.

After all, love conquers everything.

Try "respect" , its far more important that that nebulous "love"

Ever hear the phrase from the USA "There is no hate quite like Christian Love" ?

sir1963

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#3221796 23-Apr-2024 12:41

thinkingtrex8848:

sir1963:

I was a parent of a special needs child well before school lunches was a thing, and I can tell you now it has ALWAYS been underfunded and the lunches have nothing to do with it.

How about having proper sex education at schools (including LGBTQ+ needs), Talk about porn, Talk about how it is NOT real, Talk about peer pressure, and make it compulsory so NOT CHILD misses out on vital information
How about having FREE contraception available at schools, pharmacies, doctors, youth centres, etc.
How about stop punishing the kids, no child ever chose its parents, so blaming the parents so you can justify punishing the kids is just disgusting.

I agree with everything you said above and sorry to hear you had to go through this personally.

Also, if lunches have nothing to do with it, then would there be much impact of removing/adding more lunch programme?

Its has nothing to do with funding special needs. I thought that was obvious.

thinkingtrex8848

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#3221798 23-Apr-2024 12:45

sir1963:

thinkingtrex8848:

I agree with everything you said above and sorry to hear you had to go through this personally.

Also, if lunches have nothing to do with it, then would there be much impact of removing/adding more lunch programme?

Its has nothing to do with funding special needs. I thought that was obvious.

Apologies, my mistake. I assumed both were related.

Rikkitic

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#3221801 23-Apr-2024 12:53

I get the feeling @thinkingtrex8848 is trying to employ sarcasm in some of their remarks.

It isn't working.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

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#3221802 23-Apr-2024 12:54

Let's be clear here, the NAFT government's priority is not law and order, either. We've got $3B for tax cuts for landlords, but we also have the police going into mandatory arbitration because this government wants to offer them less than the previous soft-on-crime government did, and we're cutting jobs at Customs & DIA which include workers in child exploitation, money laundering and counter-terrorism.

The real priority is clear. It isn't about law and order. It's about tax cuts for rich people. The money trail is crystal clear.

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thinkingtrex8848

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#3221803 23-Apr-2024 12:57

Rikkitic:

I get the feeling @thinkingtrex8848 is trying to employ sarcasm in some of their remarks.

It isn't working.

Definitely wasn't in the previous 2 posts replying to Sir1963 as soon as I learned there are some personal experience involved and I would never wish to cause any harm or disrespect, especially where I apologised for assuming incorrectly.

Other posts, sure - thanks, your feedback if whether sarcasm is working has been taken onboard and will strive to do better. Thanks again.

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