Paul1977:

The Democrats need to do things very differently than before. I doubt they will.

They manifestly did not learn any lessons from 2016, after the establishment was so roundly rejected it led to Donald Trump.

The Washington Post - Trump campaign requests recount of hand-recounted results in Georgia ...

today

The Trump campaign on Saturday requested a formal recount of the 5 million presidential votes in Georgia in an apparent effort to exhaust its options for challenging the result in a state that narrowly backed President-elect Joe Biden.

 

Biden’s victory in Georgia was certified Friday by the [Republican] secretary of state and [Republican] governor after a painstaking audit that involved a manual hand recount. 

 

It found no evidence of widespread fraud or irregularities that would change the outcome of the race. 

 

But because Biden’s margin of victory was less than 0.5 percent of votes cast, the losing candidate can request a recount of the results under state law.

 

Election officials are now set to rescan the ballots that they reviewed during the hand recount.

 

The rescanning of ballots through counting machines will probably take less time than the week-long audit  ...

 

Note that the "hand recount" was technically an "audit" - so Trump is completely within his rights to request rescanning, at the states' expense.

It will not change the outcome, and Trump knows it.  But it will irritate the Democrats, and waste some time and money, so why not?   😶

SaltyNZ:

 

They manifestly did not learn any lessons from 2016, after the establishment was so roundly rejected it led to Donald Trump.

 

Agreed. If they had learned anything Biden wouldn't have been their candidate.

The Washington Post - Opinions - Biden reaches out. The GOP slaps him in the face.

today

President-elect Joe Biden’s victory offered the cheerful prospect that we might begin to detoxify our politics. 

 

Maybe we could forget Donald Trump for a while and argue with at least a touch of civility about the actual problems our country faces. ...

 

And the GOP’s response to the outreach?

 

... the Republican National Committee made itself the venue last week for an incendiary statement by Trump lawyer Sidney Powell. 

 

Her screed was worthy of some marginal, anti-democratic, far-right nationalist party in some other country:

 

“American patriots are fed up with the corruption from the local level, to the highest level of our government,” she said, making you wonder who is president. 

 

“We are going to take this country back. We are not going to be intimidated.

 

"We are not going to back down. We are going to clean this mess up now. 

 

"President Trump won by a landslide.

 

"We are going to prove it, and we are going to reclaim the United States of America for the people who vote for freedom.”

 

The ballots of the majority that did not “vote for freedom” by Powell’s bizarre definition - nearly 80 million so far - can be tossed into the dustbin.

 

That’s the party Biden has to deal with. ...

 

EDIT: UPDATE:  The Trump legal team has now disowned Sidney Powell, after her eye-opening remarks (above) proved too extreme, even for Donald Trump.  🙃

Paul1977:

 

SaltyNZ:

 

They manifestly did not learn any lessons from 2016, after the establishment was so roundly rejected it led to Donald Trump.

 

 

Agreed. If they had learned anything Biden wouldn't have been their candidate.

 

OTOH Biden has won the presidential election with a huge (for USA) popular vote majority and reversed the electoral school vote that Trump claimed was a landslide.

Maybe holding back /not stirring the pot right now with a response to Trumpist antics is actually the right thing to do.  I'd love to see Trump locked up, but let the justice system deal with him.  If Biden goes in hard for the attack, a fair proportion of the 70 million or so who voted for Trump will go postal.

Rikkitic:

 

One of the things that has struck me about this whole business is just how utterly selfish and self-centred Trump's supporters are. Not all Americans are like this, of course, but an alarming number seem to be.

 

There have been items in the news recently about the lockdowns and other measures in Europe and South Australia, and the willingness of people to comply with the new restrictions. The general attitude seems to be I don't like this, but it is for the good of us all and doing it now prevents something much worse later. 

 

That's a salient point. The West has been labouring under neoliberal economic policies for 40 years and selfishness is at the heart of the sell of these policies to voters. "I got rich, you could get rich too".

Covid is a timely reminder that society, although made of individuals, is a group and that what is good for the group may not necessarily be the best for me. It's really interesting to look at New Zealand's response by 'team of 5 million' and just how effective that has been in comparison.

I have no doubt that if National had been in charge we would be counting the dead like other countries.

It shows the level of discussion in the States that anything to do with 'the group' is immediately labelled socialist with heavy pejorative tones. The political situation in the country is beyond redemption, if you ask me.

I'm actually glad that Jacinda was running the show when coronavirus arrived, not Judith. Agree with the comment that our death toll would have been much higher than it is now had Judith been in charge.

Fred99: OTOH Biden has won the presidential election with a huge (for USA) popular vote majority and reversed the electoral school vote that Trump claimed was a landslide.

Maybe holding back /not stirring the pot right now with a response to Trumpist antics is actually the right thing to do.  I'd love to see Trump locked up, but let the justice system deal with him.  If Biden goes in hard for the attack, a fair proportion of the 70 million or so who voted for Trump will go postal.

quickymart:

 

I'm actually glad that Jacinda was running the show when coronavirus arrived, not Judith. Agree with the comment that our death toll would have been much higher than it is now had Judith been in charge.

 

Wrong thread.

kingdragonfly:

Fred99: OTOH Biden has won the presidential election with a huge (for USA) popular vote majority and reversed the electoral school vote that Trump claimed was a landslide.

 

Maybe holding back /not stirring the pot right now with a response to Trumpist antics is actually the right thing to do.  I'd love to see Trump locked up, but let the justice system deal with him.  If Biden goes in hard for the attack, a fair proportion of the 70 million or so who voted for Trump will go postal.

 

This is a bit of a moot argument, because various states are going after him the moment he leaves.

I'm looking at you, New York state :)

Having said that, for any functioning and adaptive government, no one can be above justice.

Well that's up to the state prosecutors, Biden can distance himself.  He's apparently stated that he won't interfere, won't "go after" Trump targeting him for federal crimes, nor will he pardon him if federal prosecutors do find cause to investigate and launch a prosecution.

It's a tricky situation for Democrats.  But if Biden as president-elect got stuck in boots and all before the many charges against Trump have been had their day in court - with cries to "lock him up", then Biden became not much better than Trump.  Trump didn't have anything substantial on Clinton, or Obama and made "lock her up" a rally cry. 70 million Americans probably believe that all the charges Trump will be facing have the same veracity as "Clinton's crimes". 

Fred99:

 

OTOH Biden has won the presidential election with a huge (for USA) popular vote majority and reversed the electoral school vote that Trump claimed was a landslide.

 

Maybe holding back /not stirring the pot right now with a response to Trumpist antics is actually the right thing to do.  I'd love to see Trump locked up, but let the justice system deal with him.  If Biden goes in hard for the attack, a fair proportion of the 70 million or so who voted for Trump will go postal.

 

It is a big win by US standards, but that comes downs to the voters wanting Trump out (not Biden in).

Not stirring the pot too much in the first term might be a good strategy, but that still doesn't mean Biden was a good choice. The system over there means they need a 60% "super majority" in the senate to get anything passed so the minority party can block out of pure spite - which the Republicans almost certainly will. A more vibrant candidate and a better campaign might have pushed the Dems closer to the 60% they need in the senate.

quickymart:

 

Jesus, he has some really dense followers. He could tell them the moon was made of cheese and they would argue it until they're blue in the face.

I love Blue Cheese, its strong flavour goes well with Moonshine.

Edit: spelling and link added

Paul1977:

 

It is a big win by US standards, but that comes downs to the voters wanting Trump out (not Biden in).

 

Not stirring the pot too much in the first term might be a good strategy, but that still doesn't mean Biden was a good choice. The system over there means they need a 60% "super majority" in the senate to get anything passed so the minority party can block out of pure spite - which the Republicans almost certainly will. A more vibrant candidate and a better campaign might have pushed the Dems closer to the 60% they need in the senate.

 

You know what makes Biden a good choice? He won! Any of the other candidates might not have. They all would have made adequate presidents (well, almost all), and they all had appeal to specific interest groups, but only Biden was well-regarded enough and bland enough to be acceptable to a broad spectrum of interests in a very partisan time. That makes him a winner.

Rikkitic:

 

You know what makes Biden a good choice? He won! Any of the other candidates might not have. They all would have made adequate presidents (well, almost all), and they all had appeal to specific interest groups, but only Biden was well-regarded enough and bland enough to be acceptable to a broad spectrum of interests in a very partisan time. That makes him a winner.

Post 20th January 2021 - Kamala Harris needs to SLOWLY step up then in late 2023 or early 2024 Joe Biden needs to state he will not be running for a second term and he and the remaining Democratic Presidents and the Democratic Party in general, need to go all out for Kamala Harris to succeed him.