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Networkn
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#2496868 2-Jun-2020 16:34

To give credit where it's due, I think the announcement by the Government that any apprenticeship will be free from July is a decent step in the right direction at least in concept.

Disappointing was JA's weak response to the BLM movement being in breach of the L2 rules. I feel she should have been MUCH stronger on this. Kiwi lives matter too.

dejadeadnz

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#2496955 2-Jun-2020 17:50

networkn:

Disappointing was JA's weak response to the BLM movement being in breach of the L2 rules. I feel she should have been MUCH stronger on this. Kiwi lives matter too.

*yawn*

Where was people's outrage when the idiotic President of the Auckland RSA did his ANZAC Day stunt? Or when Brian Tamaki and his cultists threatened to breach level 2 lockdown rules? I am not condoning the rules breach but people are literally sick of seeing black people in the US suffer from modern day lynchings at the hands of their sorry excuses for police forces and decide to express a very human response. And the breaches occurred in a clearly one-off moment in time that had already passed against a backdrop of relatively low risk (10 days of zero new cases). In the grand scheme of things, there are far worse things to be outraged about but feel free to take a dig anyway.

dejadeadnz

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#2496972 2-Jun-2020 18:36

@networkn - if you don't understand the full context of the phrase "Black Lives Matter", please at least don't just randomly co-opt the phrase to say that Kiwi lives matter too. BLM as a phrase isn't meant to be just taken literally or as a theory. On the latter front, the laws in the US already theoretically guarantees blacks full equality blah blah but in reality we know and see the facts on the ground are different. "[Insert grouping other than blacks] lives matter" or derivations thereof -- the most notorious of which is the "Blue lives matter!" phrase -- were typically driven by the hard right, racist and poor institutional practices-defending mobs like certain police unions that try to distort the extreme positions of privilege and relative safety enjoyed by US police officers relative to the black citizens they police into some kind of false victimhood. This article shows that in 2017 police officers in the US suffered 95 fatal injuries (now remember that not all of these would be intentional acts of shooting of officers by criminals). Have a look on Google how many blacks US police officers shoot and kill a year.

But then again, you do have a pretty obvious record of denying those systemic issues and instead choosing to parrot the odd bad apples theory, so maybe you don't actually care.

networkn

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#2497977 4-Jun-2020 09:31

dejadeadnz:

@networkn - if you don't understand the full context of the phrase "Black Lives Matter", please at least don't just randomly co-opt the phrase to say that Kiwi lives matter too. BLM as a phrase isn't meant to be just taken literally or as a theory. On the latter front, the laws in the US already theoretically guarantees blacks full equality blah blah but in reality we know and see the facts on the ground are different. "[Insert grouping other than blacks] lives matter" or derivations thereof -- the most notorious of which is the "Blue lives matter!" phrase -- were typically driven by the hard right, racist and poor institutional practices-defending mobs like certain police unions that try to distort the extreme positions of privilege and relative safety enjoyed by US police officers relative to the black citizens they police into some kind of false victimhood. This article shows that in 2017 police officers in the US suffered 95 fatal injuries (now remember that not all of these would be intentional acts of shooting of officers by criminals). Have a look on Google how many blacks US police officers shoot and kill a year.

But then again, you do have a pretty obvious record of denying those systemic issues and instead choosing to parrot the odd bad apples theory, so maybe you don't actually care.

I am well aware of the situation in the US (and the meaning of BLM), just as I am aware that Americans don't give a crap what New Zealanders do or say regarding their politics, racial divide, gun laws or pretty much anything else. It *may* make the people who protest here feel like they are contributing to the solution, but in reality it won't make one ioata of difference in the US (The actual solutions could be an entire topic on it's own). By comparison, 1 person infected in the protesters could make a significant difference to NZ. Watching you rant and rave every day or two or three about those who have defied lockdown rules and how people who aren't doing their part are the lowest of the low, and then watch you wave off hundreds or thousands of people congregating in close proximity in blatant disregard for the rules that are in place (which you have repeatedly rightly defended) proves his was just another way for you to launch into another ranty attack. The risk may be low(er), it may even be zero, but at the end of the day, the rules are there for a reason. The reason JA didn't come out firing was politics and politics alone.

NZ's priority right now should be NZ. I would support protesting (regardless of how effective I believe it will be) all we like once the restrictions are lifted.

I wasn't even going to dignify your comments with a response, but I feel not responding leaves your comments painting me incorrectly as supporting racism or in some way accepting the way that some police treat black Americans as acceptable which I most certainly and categorically do not.

dejadeadnz

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#2498490 4-Jun-2020 19:24

networkn:

By comparison, 1 person infected in the protesters could make a significant difference to NZ. Watching you rant and rave every day or two or three about those who have defied lockdown rules and how people who aren't doing their part are the lowest of the low, and then watch you wave off hundreds or thousands of people congregating in close proximity in blatant disregard for the rules that are in place (which you have repeatedly rightly defended) proves his was just another way for you to launch into another ranty attack.

This is rich coming from you - especially when most of your post is just a rant. Again, you don't seem interested in the fundamental differences between people breaching lockdowns at level 4 or 3 or proposing to inside close/indoor environments versus a bunch of people hanging around outdoors following 11 days of no local infections and gazillion days of no CT. And don't things up about me "waving off" these breaches - read the FUG and what it says about not being a dick. Yes, I do think people like the President of the Auckland RSA (he who did the stupid ANZAC Day stunt) is the lowest of the low because his stunt served no legitimate value. People were running their own ANZAC Day parades - his "contribution" wasn't needed. Thousands of people - many of whom didn't know each other - decided to take a stance and one stance against a modern day lynching caught live. Whilst I don't condone the lockdown breaches (repeating this because you seemingly can't read), the notion that this is somehow equally dangerous or worthy of a similar level of condemnation as some of the breaches that I was criticising is just silly.

You want to take a crack at Ardern for not more pointedly criticising these protestors? Where were you when others were doing some of the stunts that I and other criticised? Don't go around calling others out for playing politics when you do plenty of it yourself. That's the real issue.

Handle9

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#2498624 5-Jun-2020 01:31

Lost amongst the superficial issues is the truly disgusting way that a two tier benefit system has been introduced.

Out of work since COVID = "good", out of work prior to COVID = "bad". If you are a stranded migrant worker = "who cares"

Paying a benefit twice that of the normal unemployment benefit means that either people unemployed since COVID are inherently superior or that the government has recognised that the unemployment benefit is woefully inadequate.

The way that stranded migrant workers are being treated is even worse. New Zealand has the gall to lecture Australia while engaging in practices that are just as bad. Bernard Hickey summed things up very well in this opinion piece.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/politics/2020/06/03/1215973/our-compassionate-pms-mean-policies

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MikeAqua

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#2501816 10-Jun-2020 08:26

dejadeadnz:

networkn:

Disappointing was JA's weak response to the BLM movement being in breach of the L2 rules. I feel she should have been MUCH stronger on this. Kiwi lives matter too.

*yawn*

Where was people's outrage when the idiotic President of the Auckland RSA did his ANZAC Day stunt? Or when Brian Tamaki and his cultists threatened to breach level 2 lockdown rules? I am not condoning the rules breach but people are literally sick of seeing black people in the US suffer from modern day lynchings at the hands of their sorry excuses for police forces and decide to express a very human response. And the breaches occurred in a clearly one-off moment in time that had already passed against a backdrop of relatively low risk (10 days of zero new cases). In the grand scheme of things, there are far worse things to be outraged about but feel free to take a dig anyway.

It's possible to protest with social distancing in place. The footage of the much less publicised Wellington BLM protest appeared to show people practising social distancing.

That said, with infection levels so low, the protests in NZ are unlikely to cause an infection cluster. It was a possibility though. Imagine if Auckland protest caused a cluster that put the country or part of it back into Level 4.

The US and UK protests ... large assemblies (protests) or rioting mobs of people ... what could possibly go wrong.

Mike

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#2502248 10-Jun-2020 14:27

Has anyone noticed that Ardern is "angry" with The Warehouse for announcing redundancies, after having taken the govt wage subsidy, but hasn't expressed similar sentiment toward AirNZ, who were advanced a $900m govt loan and are making many more people redundant.

Mike

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#2502249 10-Jun-2020 14:33

MikeAqua:

Has anyone noticed that Ardern is "angry" with The Warehouse for announcing redundancies, after having taken the govt wage subsidy, but hasn't expressed similar sentiment toward AirNZ, who were advanced a $900m govt loan and are making many more people redundant.

AFAIK the government offered a loan facility but AirNZ has not withdrawn any money from it.

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GV27

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#2503321 12-Jun-2020 07:33

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/418821/time-running-out-for-auckland-light-rail-proposal-before-election-period

The government's official position is that negotiations are ongoing, but RNZ understands NZ First has told Transport Minister Phil Twyford it would not back a proposal for light rail from the city to the airport.

The sooner NZ First get yeeted the better, but I'd be deeply uncomfortable with a Labour/Greens government.

gzt

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#2503909 12-Jun-2020 22:10

networkn: Disappointing was JA's weak response to the BLM movement being in breach of the L2 rules. I feel she should have been MUCH stronger on this. Kiwi lives matter too.

I expect the main thing is the organisers did not anticipate huge number of people that turned up. Apparently the organisers did mention maintaining SD during the event. Coincidentally I drove past the area at the time. It was apparent some people at least were maintaining SD.

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GV27

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#2503986 13-Jun-2020 11:11

gzt:
networkn: Disappointing was JA's weak response to the BLM movement being in breach of the L2 rules. I feel she should have been MUCH stronger on this. Kiwi lives matter too.

I expect the main thing is the organisers did not anticipate huge number of people that turned up. Apparently the organisers did mention maintaining SD during the event. Coincidentally I drove past the area at the time. It was apparent some people at least were maintaining SD.

Considering how many times these 'protest marches' end up being a gaggle of 100 or so of the usual suspects, I'm not really sure organisers could have reasonably expected that many people to show up. Poor optics for the government, but I can't see any PM of any party ordering police to break it up.

Just a free hit for the opposition, but a pointless really.

JaseNZ

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#2504985 15-Jun-2020 12:27

Labour's party list is out, How the hell did Twyford go up the list and not down to the bottom is beyond me. Clark has been dropped and screwed up way less than Twyford.

Labour's 2020 list:

1 Jacinda Ardern

2 Kelvin Davis

3 Grant Robertson

4 Phil Twyford

5 Megan Woods

6 Chris Hipkins

7 Andrew Little

8 Carmel Sepuloni

9 David Parker

10 Nanaia Mahuta

11 Trevor Mallard

12 Stuart Nash

13 Iain Lees-Galloway

14 Jenny Salesa

15 Damien O'Connor

16 Kris Faafoi

17 David Clark

18 Ayesha Verrall

19 Peeni Henare

20 Willie Jackson

21 Aupito William Sio

22 Poto Williams

23 Vanushi Walters

24 Michael Wood

25 Adrian Rurawhe

26 Raymond Huo

27 Kiri Allan

28 Kieran McAnulty

29 Louisa Wall

30 Meka Whaitiri

31 Rino Tirikatene

32 Camilla Belich

33 Priyanca Radhakrishnan

34 Jan Tinetti

35 Deborah Russell

36 Marja Lubeck

37 Angie Warren-Clark

38 Willow-Jean Prime

39 Tamati Coffey

40 Naisi Chen

41 Jo Luxton

42 Jamie Strange

43 Liz Craig

44 Ibrahim Omer

45 Duncan Webb

46 Anahila Kanongata'a-Suisuiki

47 Ginny Andersen

48 Rachel Brooking

49 Paul Eagle

50 Helen White

51 Barbara Edmonds

52 Angela Roberts

53 Shanan Halbert

54 Neru Leavasa

55 Tracey McLellan

56 Lemauga Lydia Sosene

57 Steph Lewis

58 Dan Rosewarne

59 Rachel Boyack

60 Arena Williams

61 Ingrid Leary

62 Soraya Peke-Mason

63 Lotu Fuli

64 Sarah Pallett

65 Gaurav Sharma

66 Emily Henderson

67 Terisa Ngobi

68 Kurt Taogaga

69 Kerrin Leoni

70 Reuben Davidson

71 Zahra Hussaini

72 Janet Holborow

73 Romy Udanga

74 Ala' Al-Bustanji

75 Glen Bennett

76 Monina Hernandez

77 Claire Mahon

78 Jon Mitchell

79 Nathaniel Blomfield

80 Nerissa Henry

81 Mathew Flight

82 Shirin Brown

83 Liam Wairepo

84 Georgie Dansey

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GV27

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#2504993 15-Jun-2020 12:41

JaseNZ:

Labour's party list is out, How the hell did Twyford go up the list and not down to the bottom is beyond me. Clark has been dropped and screwed up way less than Twyford.

If that doesn't tell you how sincere Labour really was about light-rail or Kiwibuild then nothing will.

networkn

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#2504996 15-Jun-2020 12:44

GV27:

JaseNZ:

Labour's party list is out, How the hell did Twyford go up the list and not down to the bottom is beyond me. Clark has been dropped and screwed up way less than Twyford.

If that doesn't tell you how sincere Labour really was about light-rail or Kiwibuild then nothing will.

Or how much more likely they are to be better in the second term.

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