Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#2005679 1-May-2018 09:53

networkn:

I can't make this any more simple:

Was is there before the election? No. Is it here now? Yes. Then it's a NEW tax.

End of Story.

Everything else is just word games and Semantics. Doesn't matter if National was also going to do it, they didn't campaign on no new taxes. Doesn't matter if it's making the system fairer, that just means you may or may not resent it as well. It's still money that wasn't being collected before.

So when National increased GST that was also a new tax?

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#2005681 1-May-2018 09:54

I guess the hopeless NZ based retailers will now blame the Government for not reducing GST. After doing this they will scurry away to the back office & print up some more extended warranty posters to put up in their shops.

networkn

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#2005682 1-May-2018 09:55

DaveDog:

networkn:

I can't make this any more simple:

Was is there before the election? No. Is it here now? Yes. Then it's a NEW tax.

End of Story.

Everything else is just word games and Semantics. Doesn't matter if National was also going to do it, they didn't campaign on no new taxes. Doesn't matter if it's making the system fairer, that just means you may or may not resent it as well. It's still money that wasn't being collected before.

So when National increased GST that was also a new tax?

Yes, of course it was! Why would it not be? It's not a new TYPE of Tax, but it was a new tax (IE One we didn't pay before).

Geektastic

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#2005717 1-May-2018 10:14

wsnz:
Aredwood:

She can't. As it would be hypocritical to complain about the effects of potentially higher petrol prices due to 1 company doing some pricing manoeuvres.

It's also the exact same pricing tactic used by other retailers such as supermarkets. Will she also interject the government in that matter too?

Geektastic:

I agree. For a country that prides itself on a reputation of Number 8 wire, early settler, hard yards kind of narrative, there really are a surprising number of people whose answer to every problem seems to be “the government should do it” or “the government caused it”.

Along with "punching about our weight", a narrative that I'm not sure is altogether true representation of the facts.

I wasn't going to say that...!

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#2005723 1-May-2018 10:16

Disagree. We punch well above our weight in sport. Not sure about much else.

Geektastic

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#2005725 1-May-2018 10:18

DaveDog:
wsnz:

Government announces further tax for Kiwis buying low-value goods online

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12042435

I don't have a problem with this. In essence, GST is a consumption tax that's charged on goods and services that are used within New Zealand. If you import goods for use in NZ then under those rules you should pay GST.

Looking at the bigger picture. The government needs to secure income in order to spend. Online/overseas purchases are eroding that income stream and they either need to enforce the current rules, increase taxes or create new taxes to increase income - or they need to decrease spending (how that money gets spent is not part of this argument). That's one part of the equation.

The other part of the equation is that local businesses need to be able to compete - it isn't fair that they have to charge GST where others don't. It'll still likely be cheaper to purchase online, and that's where retailers need to come to the market. We should, of course, remember that the NZ based retailers are also NZ based employers - they're employing Kiwi's, and that's worth something to us as a collective nation.

I'm not paying more to inefficient, incompetent retailers simply because they employ people. I'm not giving to charity when I go shopping.

Spending less is the answer, not taxing more. Leave people more of their own money to spend as they see fit.

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#2005729 1-May-2018 10:19

networkn:
Disagree. We punch well above our weight in sport. Not sure about much else.

Yes, but sport isn't actually a useful endeavour. If we did so in technology or manufacturing or financial services that would be rather more useful.

networkn

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#2005735 1-May-2018 10:22

Geektastic:
networkn:

Disagree. We punch well above our weight in sport. Not sure about much else.

Yes, but sport isn't actually a useful endeavour. If we did so in technology or manufacturing or final services that would be rather more useful.

We will need to agree to disagree. Sport generates income, jobs, and has many social benefits. I know you don't put that much credence in social aspects, but science backs up the benefits of positive social interactions. Not to mention the physical benefits of sports/exercise. That extrapolates to less people in hospital for weight-related illness etc. Endorphins from exercising increase productivity and mental well being which results in less days not working due to mental and health issues.

DaveDog

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Ultimate Geek
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#2005774 1-May-2018 10:42

Geektastic:
DaveDog:

wsnz:

Government announces further tax for Kiwis buying low-value goods online

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12042435

I don't have a problem with this. In essence, GST is a consumption tax that's charged on goods and services that are used within New Zealand. If you import goods for use in NZ then under those rules you should pay GST.

Looking at the bigger picture. The government needs to secure income in order to spend. Online/overseas purchases are eroding that income stream and they either need to enforce the current rules, increase taxes or create new taxes to increase income - or they need to decrease spending (how that money gets spent is not part of this argument). That's one part of the equation.

The other part of the equation is that local businesses need to be able to compete - it isn't fair that they have to charge GST where others don't. It'll still likely be cheaper to purchase online, and that's where retailers need to come to the market. We should, of course, remember that the NZ based retailers are also NZ based employers - they're employing Kiwi's, and that's worth something to us as a collective nation.

I'm not paying more to inefficient, incompetent retailers simply because they employ people. I'm not giving to charity when I go shopping.

Spending less is the answer, not taxing more. Leave people more of their own money to spend as they see fit.

You'll still be free to shop with whomever you choose to shop with, the only difference being that they're all playing on the same field. Nothing unfair about fairness like that. If you choose to support NZ businesses - that's completely up to you, but your attitude towards them is pretty crappy - we have some excellent, efficient and highly competent people and businesses in this country - just sounds like you haven't been using those...

Just out of interest - since you think you should pay less tax - theoretically, which services are you going to cut to account for that (and since you're not prepared to use kiwi businesses, cutting the WINZ budget won't be an option because if everyone follows suit - we'll have more of an unemployment problem).

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#2005830 1-May-2018 11:35

networkn:
Geektastic:
networkn:

Disagree. We punch well above our weight in sport. Not sure about much else.

Yes, but sport isn't actually a useful endeavour. If we did so in technology or manufacturing or final services that would be rather more useful.

We will need to agree to disagree. Sport generates income, jobs, and has many social benefits. I know you don't put that much credence in social aspects, but science backs up the benefits of positive social interactions. Not to mention the physical benefits of sports/exercise. That extrapolates to less people in hospital for weight-related illness etc. Endorphins from exercising increase productivity and mental well being which results in less days not working due to mental and health issues.

Playing it has benefits. Watching it, not so much. I struggle to understand why anyone would care which group could kick a ball in a net more often than another or whatever.

Then again, I have never really had the urge to compete against anything but myself really so I guess I am just not wired that way.

networkn

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#2005836 1-May-2018 11:39

Playing it has benefits. Watching it, not so much. I struggle to understand why anyone would care which group could kick a ball in a net more often than another or whatever.

Then again, I have never really had the urge to compete against anything but myself really so I guess I am just not wired that way.

Well without people watching it, why would people play it so competitively? There is plenty of money in sport that flows on to other things.

Just because you aren't wired that way, doesn't mean that logically you can't work out why others might enjoy it?

I don't really love arts and live art performances, but I categorically understand how important it is to a successful society in general and it's value.

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Geektastic

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#2005837 1-May-2018 11:40

DaveDog:
Geektastic:
DaveDog:

wsnz:

Government announces further tax for Kiwis buying low-value goods online

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12042435

I don't have a problem with this. In essence, GST is a consumption tax that's charged on goods and services that are used within New Zealand. If you import goods for use in NZ then under those rules you should pay GST.

Looking at the bigger picture. The government needs to secure income in order to spend. Online/overseas purchases are eroding that income stream and they either need to enforce the current rules, increase taxes or create new taxes to increase income - or they need to decrease spending (how that money gets spent is not part of this argument). That's one part of the equation.

The other part of the equation is that local businesses need to be able to compete - it isn't fair that they have to charge GST where others don't. It'll still likely be cheaper to purchase online, and that's where retailers need to come to the market. We should, of course, remember that the NZ based retailers are also NZ based employers - they're employing Kiwi's, and that's worth something to us as a collective nation.

I'm not paying more to inefficient, incompetent retailers simply because they employ people. I'm not giving to charity when I go shopping.

Spending less is the answer, not taxing more. Leave people more of their own money to spend as they see fit.

You'll still be free to shop with whomever you choose to shop with, the only difference being that they're all playing on the same field. Nothing unfair about fairness like that. If you choose to support NZ businesses - that's completely up to you, but your attitude towards them is pretty crappy - we have some excellent, efficient and highly competent people and businesses in this country - just sounds like you haven't been using those...

Just out of interest - since you think you should pay less tax - theoretically, which services are you going to cut to account for that (and since you're not prepared to use kiwi businesses, cutting the WINZ budget won't be an option because if everyone follows suit - we'll have more of an unemployment problem).

I won’t go down that road. I’m politically something like a cross between Vlad The Impaler and Julius Caesar so any answer I give is going to offend someone!

Given how many complaints about NZ retailers can be found on GZ alone, I would think you could do us all a favour and tell us where these “excellent, efficient and highly competent businesses” are to be found, because it looks like a lot of people can’t find them....

Geektastic

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#2005850 1-May-2018 11:52

networkn:

Playing it has benefits. Watching it, not so much. I struggle to understand why anyone would care which group could kick a ball in a net more often than another or whatever.

Then again, I have never really had the urge to compete against anything but myself really so I guess I am just not wired that way.

Well without people watching it, why would people play it so competitively? There is plenty of money in sport that flows on to other things.

Just because you aren't wired that way, doesn't mean that logically you can't work out why others might enjoy it?

I don't really love arts and live art performances, but I categorically understand how important it is to a successful society in general and it's value.

Not really. It’s an Asperger thing - I have great difficulty in understanding others because their thinking makes no sense so often (to me). It makes life quite challenging. I literally can see little point in a group of people running around a field chasing a ball and getting muddy, aside from the physical benefit to them. Why does it matter who wins?

The money only exists because of TV really though - so how come people also watched it when it was amateur and the footballers etc had day jobs as well? It can’t just be about money - it was played competitively before there was money.

The financial benefit I can discern - it’s tangible, if slightly contrived. The physical benefit to players I can discern - it’s tangible. The competitive, spectator and tribal parts of it are utterly alien and meaningless to me, though.

As you say, we’ll be agreeing to disagree and are drifting OT anyway.

rjt123

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#2005896 1-May-2018 12:26

Interesting article on the Auckland rail issue.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12042426

And then the government complains they don't have enough money...

networkn

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#2005900 1-May-2018 12:28

There will be plenty of money once they are done taxing everything and everyone to death. So long as they don't "call" it something new, apparently most people are ok with it.

I despair for the future of NZ. By the time people wake up and realize, it will be too late.

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