Jacinda Ardern - our new PM

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#2005942 1-May-2018 12:50

networkn:

There will be plenty of money once they are done taxing everything and everyone to death. So long as they don't "call" it something new, apparently most people are ok with it.

I despair for the future of NZ. By the time people wake up and realize, it will be too late.

NZers will start flocking back to Australia. NZ is already an expensive place to live and this government is hell bent on making it more so. To hell with election promises like helping those less fortunate...

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#2005949 1-May-2018 12:56

I posted this in the civilised section of GZ and its applicable here too. "Unless we have all jumped in a Tardis and gone back to 30/09/1986 then it is a new tax. We haven't and the current date is post 01/10/1986 and GST is in force so this is no more a new tax than what is was when the then National Government increased to rate to 15%"

The IRD have be moving to plug loop holes and tax avoidance for a long time I am surprised this took so long to plug.

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

networkn

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#2005951 1-May-2018 12:57

MikeB4:

I posted this in the civilised section of GZ and its applicable here too. "Unless we have all jumped in a Tardis and gone back to 30/09/1986 then it is a new tax. We haven't and the current date is post 01/10/1986 and GST is in force so this is no more a new tax than what is was when the then National Government increased to rate to 15%"

The IRD have be moving to plug loop holes and tax avoidance for a long time I am surprised this took so long to plug.

You'd be just as wrong in this thread as you were in the other. If you didn't have to pay it last year, and do now, it's a new tax.

Labour could increase GST, Income Tax, FBT, Terminal Tax, Company tax, and according to you, it's ok, because it's not a NEW tax.

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#2005961 1-May-2018 13:10

networkn:

MikeB4:

I posted this in the civilised section of GZ and its applicable here too. "Unless we have all jumped in a Tardis and gone back to 30/09/1986 then it is a new tax. We haven't and the current date is post 01/10/1986 and GST is in force so this is no more a new tax than what is was when the then National Government increased to rate to 15%"

The IRD have be moving to plug loop holes and tax avoidance for a long time I am surprised this took so long to plug.

You'd be just as wrong in this thread as you were in the other. If you didn't have to pay it last year, and do now, it's a new tax.

Labour could increase GST, Income Tax, FBT, Terminal Tax, Company tax, and according to you, it's ok, because it's not a NEW tax.

Increasing existing tax IS NOT legislating new tax. That does not mean that I would agree with the increase. Plugging tax loop holes and avoidance is something I do agree with.

I respect a lot of what you say but you have blinkers securely riveted on, you seem obsessed with Labour and the election. I swear if Labour fixed child poverty, fixed the housing issues they would still be wrong in your eyes. I voted National but still can see both sides of the spectrum

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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#2005969 1-May-2018 13:21

I think it's a pointless argument really...

Essentially it boils down to whether you call it "a new tax" or simply "new tax".

It's indisputable that it is new - it's money that you weren't paying in tax previously.

It's also indisputable that the type of tax already exists.

(applies equally to both Fuel Levy, and GST on all imports)

Labour's election promise that there would be "no new taxes, besides those we've already announced." was ambiguous enough to give them wriggle room. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt and concluding that they were not ruling out tax increases (which is what we're seeing) only ruling out new forms of that that the Tax Working Group will be dreaming up - like CGT, Inheritance Tax, Financial Transaction Tax, Stamp Duty, etc, etc.

The flipside to that is that they could equally raise income tax rates or lower the income thresholds and still claim "no new taxes"

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#2005970 1-May-2018 13:22

MikeB4:

Increasing existing tax IS NOT legislating new tax. That does not mean that I would agree with the increase. Plugging tax loop holes and avoidance is something I do agree with.

I respect a lot of what you say but you have blinkers securely riveted on, you seem obsessed with Labour and the election. I swear if Labour fixed child poverty, fixed the housing issues they would still be wrong in your eyes. I voted National but still can see both sides of the spectrum

Rubbish. If Labour fixed Child Poverty in a meaningful way, properly planned and executed, I would stand on my desk and cheer them on. Not EVERYTHING Labour is bad, but right now every day is something else they have said they will do they won't do, something they said they wouldn't do and are going to do, or a scandal or attempt to blame others than themselves for a failure to properly plan their policies. If Labour fix the housing issues, I'll

People have every right to post what they think Labour is doing well, but in fact there is little to report. All I have seen is talk of "hope" instead.

I feel really ripped off by Labour. I don't agree with the majority of their policies but at least if they were well planned and executed I could say at least they tried what they thought was best. Every day I wake up and something else is going badly.

Are you saying you'll support Labour in increasing Income, GST, and other forms of tax as well if they announce it? Those aren't "new' either by your definition and apparently Labours either.

Yesterday you were commenting about a rose being called by another name. Surely this is the same thing.

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networkn

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#2005976 1-May-2018 13:27

I can assure you I am not obsessed by the election or Labour, I have LOT's of interests. However I believe in fairness and honesty, and I am really really angry about what I see is complete dishonesty and cluelessness on people running our country.

I meet people every day seemingly, that are just as angry. Last night I met 4 guys who make my anger seem like slight annoyance.

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#2006071 1-May-2018 15:31

networkn:

There will be plenty of money once they are done taxing everything and everyone to death. So long as they don't "call" it something new, apparently most people are ok with it.

I despair for the future of NZ. By the time people wake up and realize, it will be too late.

I took part in an opinion poll last night. The first question was some to the effect of "do you think NZ is heading in the right direction?" Unsure of what the whole survey was about I took a pretty broad perspective and said yes. Then the survey delved into a more political focus and I thought, well, the response to the first question will be a bit skewed if applied in respect of politics. Often the news publishes a statistic like this as though it is a reflection of the government

As a whole right now NZ isn't exactly heading in the wrong direction, even if jacinda is trying to turn veer the ship to the left. But by the end of the year the direction we are facing might not be nearly so rosy.

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#2006074 1-May-2018 15:35

rjt123:

networkn:

There will be plenty of money once they are done taxing everything and everyone to death. So long as they don't "call" it something new, apparently most people are ok with it.

I despair for the future of NZ. By the time people wake up and realize, it will be too late.

I took part in an opinion poll last night. The first question was some to the effect of "do you think NZ is heading in the right direction?" Unsure of what the whole survey was about I took a pretty broad perspective and said yes. Then the survey delved into a more political focus and I thought, well, the response to the first question will be a bit skewed if applied in respect of politics. Often the news publishes a statistic like this as though it is a reflection of the government

As a whole right now NZ isn't exactly heading in the wrong direction, even if jacinda is trying to turn veer the ship to the left. But by the end of the year the direction we are facing might not be nearly so rosy.

It's cliched and possibly occasionally not historically always that true, but it really feels to me that National spent 9 years providing the financial groundwork so it could then spent socially this term whilst still doing so responsibly. Labour has walked in and started spending up large, and by the time they are done, and National is back, National will need another 9 years so they can be socially generous. Labour may get plaudits in some corners for their social spending, but people need to understand why they can even do this.

rjt123

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#2006146 1-May-2018 17:04

MikeB4:

networkn:

MikeB4:

I posted this in the civilised section of GZ and its applicable here too. "Unless we have all jumped in a Tardis and gone back to 30/09/1986 then it is a new tax. We haven't and the current date is post 01/10/1986 and GST is in force so this is no more a new tax than what is was when the then National Government increased to rate to 15%"

The IRD have be moving to plug loop holes and tax avoidance for a long time I am surprised this took so long to plug.

You'd be just as wrong in this thread as you were in the other. If you didn't have to pay it last year, and do now, it's a new tax.

Labour could increase GST, Income Tax, FBT, Terminal Tax, Company tax, and according to you, it's ok, because it's not a NEW tax.

Increasing existing tax IS NOT legislating new tax. That does not mean that I would agree with the increase. Plugging tax loop holes and avoidance is something I do agree with.

I respect a lot of what you say but you have blinkers securely riveted on, you seem obsessed with Labour and the election. I swear if Labour fixed child poverty, fixed the housing issues they would still be wrong in your eyes. I voted National but still can see both sides of the spectrum

Techincally no these aren't new taxes. The context of labour's "no new taxes" comments however, were made in response to English contrasting National's tax cuts with Labour leaving the door open for a big tax increase. After the heat was turned up on jacinda, labour backed down and said no new taxes.

Now if they started fiddling with the income tax brackets/thresholds there would be justifiable outrage. Fiddling with GST thresholds is no different. Looking at their excise increase & now the GST expansion in the context of their pre-election comments, it's clear that they mis-led the public when they said "no new taxes" - even if they left just enough wriggle room to 'legally' do it.

However, it is also worth noting that both the fuel excise and this GST policy change are both regressive taxes, therefore, go directly against Labour's principles in standing up for the poor, the needy, the homeless... because these changes will hurt them the most. All I can think of is that they are trying to create unfairness in our current tax regime so there is something legitimate for the TWG to suggest changes on.

In respect to this GST thing, it is actually a good thing in principle, and I thing National would have done it anyway. It will be hard to manage/administer, I would have thought they would reduce the threshold to say $100 instead. It could actually be viewed as a somewhat 'protectionist' move, so another opportunity to draw a parallel between jacinda and Trump :)

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#2006150 1-May-2018 17:16

If the English or Key governments had extended GST like this would you also draw parallels between and Trump? Was the Netflix tax also protectionist and also an opportunity to draw parallels between Key and Trump?

Here is a crazy notion, lets give peace a chance.

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rjt123

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#2006169 1-May-2018 18:21

MikeB4:
If the English or Key governments had extended GST like this would you also draw parallels between and Trump? Was the Netflix tax also protectionist and also an opportunity to draw parallels between Key and Trump?

I probably wouldn't, though if it was a fair comparison I wouldn't object to it either. I'm not generally actively seeking to point out similarities between Trump and other individual's.

If jacinda ( and her loyal subjects) didn't object so strongly and indignantly about it I probably wouldn't make that comparison with her either.

But in saying that, if Trump isn't all bad. For sure he has his failings (but who doesn't) but there are some good points about his policy, sometimes. So drawing a comparison is not necessarily an insult.

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#2006279 1-May-2018 21:12

rjt123: Interesting article on the Auckland rail issue.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12042426

And then the government complains they don't have enough money...

And this is 1 of the reasons why I have been saying that trams are just a complete waste of money.

And trams will require massive ratepayer subsidies to pay for the running costs. The Dominion rd area already has lots of buses, so trams will be unlikely to provide a better service than buses. So won't encourage more people to use public transport.

You can`t run express service's with trams, like you can with heavy rail. (train leaves the airport and travels at 110Km/hr until it reaches Britomart). Meaning that it will still be quicker to travel by car between the airport and the CBD. Trams will have to stop at every set of traffic lights, and if an accident blocks the tram tracks. The trams cannot detour around the accident. The whole point of heavy rail is to provide set travel times that are not affected by road congestion or accidents. A tram network can't do that unless you build a completely separate track network from roads. But you might as well just build heavy rail if you are going to do that.

And electric buses would negate any possible emissions reductions compared to trams. And heavy rail can be used for freight as well. And make it possible to transfer freight directly between air and rail.

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#2006345 2-May-2018 06:29

Aredwood:
rjt123: Interesting article on the Auckland rail issue.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12042426

And then the government complains they don't have enough money...

And this is 1 of the reasons why I have been saying that trams are just a complete waste of money.

And trams will require massive ratepayer subsidies to pay for the running costs. The Dominion rd area already has lots of buses, so trams will be unlikely to provide a better service than buses. So won't encourage more people to use public transport.

Downtown Auckland is already chocca with buses coming from Dominion Road and they're effectively strangling the city. You simply can't keep firing buses down Dominion Road because they have to end up somewhere, and it's full. Everyone acknowledges this; the Govt, the Council, even the reports the Nats were receiving were telling them this.

Think what you want about HR to the airport but Dom Road, Symonds St and SH16 Light Rail is badly needed now and needs to happen regardless of what you do to the airport. Mike Lee should be kept as far away from Heavy Rail decision-making as possible after the mess that he apparently caused with Parnell Station.

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#2006349 2-May-2018 06:48

GV27: Downtown Auckland is already chocca with buses coming from Dominion Road and they're effectively strangling the city. You simply can't keep firing buses down Dominion Road because they have to end up somewhere, and it's full. Everyone acknowledges this; the Govt, the Council, even the reports the Nats were receiving were telling them this.

Won't trams just do the same thing given they're essentially just a bus that has to stick to the tracks?

Heavy rail on the other hand, has it's own rail corridor, therefore doesn't impact traffic flow, congestion etc. If bus congestion is a problem trams won't fix that.

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