So it begins...

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Networkn
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#1965181 27-Feb-2018 15:30

elpenguino:

networkn:

Wonder what happens with Collins now?

Is it 'she fumes on the sidelines and undermines the current leadership at every turn, awaiting her chance to back stab them when they are weak' ?

I'm sure you'd love that.

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#1965190 27-Feb-2018 15:46

networkn:

elpenguino:

networkn:

Wonder what happens with Collins now?

Is it 'she fumes on the sidelines and undermines the current leadership at every turn, awaiting her chance to back stab them when they are weak' ?

I'm sure you'd love that.

yeah but mostly cos it would confirm my expectations of her.

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#1965192 27-Feb-2018 15:47

No surprise that Bridges won, but Paula Bennett staying on as deputy is perplexing. Non-National voters hate her (even more than Crusher!), National voters at best tolerate her, and she was a complete liability during the election campaign. Her hanging about also jams a large spanner in the works of what would otherwise be a clean break from the previous leadership.

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#1965207 27-Feb-2018 15:54

allio:

No surprise that Bridges won, but Paula Bennett staying on as deputy is perplexing. Non-National voters hate her (even more than Crusher!), National voters at best tolerate her, and she was a complete liability during the election campaign. Her hanging about also jams a large spanner in the works of an otherwise clean break from the previous leadership.

Where are you getting information about Paula Bennett being hated? What did she do that caused such angst? I don't really mind her, one way or another. She doesn't seem very dynamic, however, I think from what I've heard she has done a lot for her electorate and is hard working.

The people who hate her probably aren't voting National anyway no matter what they do, so what difference does it make?

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#1965216 27-Feb-2018 16:01

networkn:

allio:

No surprise that Bridges won, but Paula Bennett staying on as deputy is perplexing. Non-National voters hate her (even more than Crusher!), National voters at best tolerate her, and she was a complete liability during the election campaign. Her hanging about also jams a large spanner in the works of an otherwise clean break from the previous leadership.

Where are you getting information about Paula Bennett being hated? What did she do that caused such angst? I don't really mind her, one way or another. She doesn't seem very dynamic, however, I think from what I've heard she has done a lot for her electorate and is hard working.

The people who hate her probably aren't voting National anyway no matter what they do, so what difference does it make?

Agree, I don't thinks she is that widely 'hated' - except of course by the same people that hated Key, English etc.

I actually think she has a similar manner to JA, quite a good communicator in my opinion, but perhaps a bit more forthright.

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#1965217 27-Feb-2018 16:02

networkn:

Where are you getting information about Paula Bennett being hated? What did she do that caused such angst? I don't really mind her, one way or another. She doesn't seem very dynamic, however, I think from what I've heard she has done a lot for her electorate and is hard working.

The people who hate her probably aren't voting National anyway no matter what they do, so what difference does it make?

The graphs on the previous page. She is the most disliked person in the National party by non-National voters. As to why - I can only speak for me personally, but it's a cumulative effect of nine years of sneering incompetence.

With regard to your last point - that attitude works well when you are in government and outpolling your opposition, but not so well when it's the other way around. National actually need to regain some of the voters they have lost, and I can't see how Paula will help with that.

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#1965220 27-Feb-2018 16:09

networkn:

allio:

No surprise that Bridges won, but Paula Bennett staying on as deputy is perplexing. Non-National voters hate her (even more than Crusher!), National voters at best tolerate her, and she was a complete liability during the election campaign. Her hanging about also jams a large spanner in the works of an otherwise clean break from the previous leadership.

Where are you getting information about Paula Bennett being hated? What did she do that caused such angst? I don't really mind her, one way or another. She doesn't seem very dynamic, however, I think from what I've heard she has done a lot for her electorate and is hard working.

The people who hate her probably aren't voting National anyway no matter what they do, so what difference does it make?

It's also on the chart I posted - she had at the time of that poll a 56% unfavourability rating for "leader". OK - she might not be "hated" but there are a lot of people who don't think well of her.

All you need is some voters who don't like her sufficiently to avoid voting National when they might otherwise have done so, and that swing can win or lose elections.

In my opinion though, it's not likely to come to that. I doubt that Bridges / Bennett will actually both make it to the next election as leader/deputy.

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#1965221 27-Feb-2018 16:10

allio:

The graphs on the previous page. She is the most disliked person in the National party by non-National voters. As to why - I can only speak for me personally, but it's a cumulative effect of nine years of sneering incompetence.

With regard to your last point - that attitude works well when you are in government and outpolling your opposition, but not so well when it's the other way around. National actually need to regain some of the voters they have lost, and I can't see how Paula will help with that.

Of what sneering incompetence do you speak exactly? Whilst I haven't that much attention to her, I don't recall her sneering, it's not something I'd likely forget as sneering people tend to push my buttons.

There are people in NZ who no matter what policy National released, they wouldn't vote for them, because they aren't Labour, or aren't the Greens. Of Vica Versa. National would release far left policy, superior in every way to Labour, those people won't budge.

Those people neither party aim to spend time convincing.

I wouldn't get too ahead of yourself re recent polls. As it becomes increasingly apparent Labour won't be able to deliver on it's promises, and assuming the new Leadership for National delivers, possibly on a greener and more social policy agenda, things may well head back.

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#1965229 27-Feb-2018 16:20

allio

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#1965232 27-Feb-2018 16:24

networkn:

Of what sneering incompetence do you speak exactly? Whilst I haven't that much attention to her, I don't recall her sneering, it's not something I'd likely forget as sneering people tend to push my buttons.

"Zip it sweetie"

I wouldn't get too ahead of yourself re recent polls. As it becomes increasingly apparent Labour won't be able to deliver on it's promises, and assuming the new Leadership for National delivers, possibly on a greener and more social policy agenda, things may well head back.

Maybe. Sounds a lot like us lefties in 2008, though. We were sure the Key government was going to be one-term as well.

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#1965238 27-Feb-2018 16:41

allio:

networkn:

Of what sneering incompetence do you speak exactly? Whilst I haven't that much attention to her, I don't recall her sneering, it's not something I'd likely forget as sneering people tend to push my buttons.

"Zip it sweetie"

Actually that was a great one-liner (IMO).

She was responsible for social-welfare reform which is likely to go down like a lead-balloon in the labour-green voter base, irrespective of who it is. It needs someone tough to make the tough calls, and she was obviously considered to have done the job well by Key & English as she kept her list ranking.

Obviously personality plays a big part in politics, but it sometimes bugs me how fickle voters can be. e.g. there was virtually no substantial change in policy between Little's leadership and Adern's, yet somehow she was considered to be a far more attractive option.

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#1965315 27-Feb-2018 18:19

Personality gets you elected. Policy gets you kicked out.

networkn

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#1965322 27-Feb-2018 18:25

rjt123:

Actually that was a great one-liner (IMO).

She was responsible for social-welfare reform which is likely to go down like a lead-balloon in the labour-green voter base, irrespective of who it is. It needs someone tough to make the tough calls, and she was obviously considered to have done the job well by Key & English as she kept her list ranking.

Obviously personality plays a big part in politics, but it sometimes bugs me how fickle voters can be. e.g. there was virtually no substantial change in policy between Little's leadership and Adern's, yet somehow she was considered to be a far more attractive option.

If Adern (or any other female Labour party canidate of which I can't even think of one right now) had said that line, it would be a meme, be on the front page of the Herald and would be the anthem for go-getters everywhere.

For me, Bennett is possibly a little too sickly sweet, she probably could take a few lessons from Collins, but not go too far. A little more zip it sweetie wouldn't bother me too much.

I saw Collins on 7 Days, she was funny, but it was a little akward. She did embrace her Crusher nickname in that instance and some good laughs were produced from it.

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#1965327 27-Feb-2018 18:34

allio:

Maybe. Sounds a lot like us lefties in 2008, though. We were sure the Key government was going to be one-term as well.

Honestly, you may be right, I am hoping (a lot) not though. There are some differences between the two parties in first term opposition so far, but if they (Nats) have a second leadership contest it will weaken peoples view of them.

I thought Bridges was good in his first speech, the content was strong. I think he addressed the key points (no significant change in economic policy for example) that people wanted reassurance on.

The muppets in the press asking if he steps down if they lose in 2020, his response was quite amusing.

The biggest thing National can do right now, is make the average punter aware of what Labour promised vs what they will actually deliver. There is already plenty of ammo just in what's already been pared back policy wise. It's a fine line between seeming like you are bagging people, and making them aware of the shortcomings, vs what you would do instead. A key part of Labour getting a second term will be what happens in about 7 months time. How that is handled by Labour. If stupidity ensues, they will struggle for credibility.

I liked that he feels it's important for National to get to the people, not just in the 6 months to the election, but now. It will be interesting to see what direction Bridges takes the National Party policy-wise.

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#1965481 28-Feb-2018 08:54

IMHO, Bennett was an extremely poor choice on the part of National.

...though my reasons for thinking so are slightly different to some of the objections raised here so far.

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