So it begins...

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Ultimate Geek
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#1965500 28-Feb-2018 09:07

6FIEND:
IMHO, Bennett was an extremely poor choice on the part of National.

...though my reasons for thinking so are slightly different to some of the objections raised here so far.

Explain?

MikeAqua

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#1965554 28-Feb-2018 10:05

Did Ardern ever actually say "Zip it Sweetie"? I thought that was meme in response to her telling off Mark Richardson in more articulate terms.

Mike

networkn

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#1965557 28-Feb-2018 10:09

MikeAqua:

Did Ardern ever actually say "Zip it Sweetie"? I thought that was meme in response to her telling off Mark Richardson in more articulate terms.

That was Paula Bennett in response to someone else.

Would have been classic to see Paula say it to Ardern during a debate or such. Obviously, there would be the usual brigade rushing to the defense of poor JA who must be protected at all costs.

6FIEND

774 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1965600 28-Feb-2018 10:34

networkn:

MikeAqua:

Did Ardern ever actually say "Zip it Sweetie"? I thought that was meme in response to her telling off Mark Richardson in more articulate terms.

That was Paula Bennett in response to someone else.

Would have been classic to see Paula say it to Ardern during a debate or such.

As you wish :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm8_-0FcKrw

rjt123:
6FIEND:

IMHO, Bennett was an extremely poor choice on the part of National.

...though my reasons for thinking so are slightly different to some of the objections raised here so far.

Explain?

Mostly, it's less to do with her having an abrasive personality or being prone to silly stunts like the video posted earlier. More to do with potential skeletons in the closet, and National not fully committing to a clear-out of the old guard - given their decision to install Bridges as leader. It's almost as if they're not fully committed to the change.

networkn

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#1965613 28-Feb-2018 10:46

6FIEND:

As you wish :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm8_-0FcKrw

LOL Wow, that didn't disappoint. I thought PB had said it to someone else.

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user

#1965698 28-Feb-2018 11:40

6FIEND:
rjt123:
6FIEND:

IMHO, Bennett was an extremely poor choice on the part of National.

...though my reasons for thinking so are slightly different to some of the objections raised here so far.

Explain?

Mostly, it's less to do with her having an abrasive personality or being prone to silly stunts like the video posted earlier. More to do with potential skeletons in the closet, and National not fully committing to a clear-out of the old guard - given their decision to install Bridges as leader. It's almost as if they're not fully committed to the change.

Interesting that people think there needs to be a massive change. My feeling is changing the leader is sufficient. To make a massive overhaul is to concede they were heading in the wrong direction and it kind of says to their voters "sorry we were actually wrong, but we've made some changes" in contrast by remaining the same it says to their voter base "yes, you made the right choice, we're still standing for the same policies, we've just got a new leader".
Are their policies wrong? no
Were their people wrong in the last election? No

So what really needs to change, IMO not much, just wait and see what the polls indicate for the next election, things could be quite different. But an element of continuity is as important as a refresh.

6FIEND

774 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1965823 28-Feb-2018 13:08

I personally wasn't in favour of a big shift for National. (mostly for the same for the reasons you list) But if you're going to install a fresh new face (who incidentally claims to represent fundamentally the same ideals as Ardern's Labour Party) ...then you should really commit to the change, rather than trying to have a bob-each-way...

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bmt

574 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1966030 28-Feb-2018 17:53

So anyone here think Bridges and Bennett (LOL) can haul National over 50% in 2020 since they have no friends now?

Anyone?

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1966045 28-Feb-2018 18:10

bmt:
So anyone here think Bridges and Bennett (LOL) can haul National over 50% in 2020 since they have no friends now?

Anyone?

Of course, I think they'll be more than capable. It's too soon to call the next election, but labour could be just as friendless as the nats if there's no NZF or greens. Maybe that's where ACT prove their worth.

Had you considered that possibility?

networkn

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#1966048 28-Feb-2018 18:25

bmt:

So anyone here think Bridges and Bennett (LOL) can haul National over 50% in 2020 since they have no friends now?

Anyone?

Well, I'd suggest it's going to be as much a case of how badly Labour does. So far they have broken pretty much any promises. Voters won't wear that forever.

National hasn't said much about it, I expect that to change. Bridges is already talking about it.

To answer your question, yes, I do think they can.

Your snarky tone (again) was noted however.

networkn

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#1966050 28-Feb-2018 18:31

bmt:

So anyone here think Bridges and Bennett (LOL) can haul National over 50% in 2020 since they have no friends now?

Anyone?

Were you not one advocating that us disbelievers in JA, give her a chance to get settled in the role and prove herself before passing judgement?

Does it only apply to JA? SB has been in the job all of 24 hours you are calling it already.

I guess you aren't so morally superior after all.

Pumpedd

1759 posts

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#1966103 28-Feb-2018 20:17

bmt:

So anyone here think Bridges and Bennett (LOL) can haul National over 50% in 2020 since they have no friends now?

Anyone?

Actually its much more of a (LOL) seeing your attempts to flame intelligent posters.

Rikkitic

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#1966111 28-Feb-2018 20:33

Pumpedd:

Actually its much more of a (LOL) seeing your attempts to flame intelligent (?) posters.

You mean, as in ...

"Your snarky tone (again) was noted however"

"I guess you aren't so morally superior after all."

Yep, plenty of intelligent, thoughtful analysis there.

Now do I get another intelligent reply telling me that my reply is disrespectful and uncalled for?

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

bmt

574 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1966120 28-Feb-2018 20:51

Haha lordy the fan club is out in force tonight. You guys realise you're a tiny echo chamber patting each other on the back and nobody else cares?

networkn, you keep harping on about "broken promises" etc while Labour and the coalition keep rising in the polls. Do you think your opinion reflects that of the common voter (hint: no).

Re advocating giving Jacinda Ardern a chance - not that I can recall. Feel free to provide a link/quote to where I said that and I will be happily corrected. My point is not so much about giving Bridges a chance, but that can he, let alone ANY of the leadership candidates, take National to the highest ever single party result under MMP, governing alone for the first time? John Key was super popular and never got anywhere near that. Bill English campaigned his ass off and got nowhere near that. ACT is all but toast so lets be honest, National have to get it all by themselves. Labour would just have to spectacularly collapse in this term for that to happen and all signs point towards that not happening at the moment.

One last point, Simon Bridges is more conservative than anti-abortion Bill, and definitely far more conservative than John Key. Christianity in this country is well and truly on the decline, and I can tell you right now with a high degree of confidence that <50% of the voter base are conservative. Can Simon Bridges put aside his principles to appeal to enough of the voter base to get them over 50% of the vote? That is the question.

rjt123

517 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#1966142 28-Feb-2018 21:27

bmt:
Haha lordy the fan club is out in force tonight. You guys realise you're a tiny echo chamber patting each other on the back and nobody else cares?

networkn, you keep harping on about "broken promises" etc while Labour and the coalition keep rising in the polls. Do you think your opinion reflects that of the common voter (hint: no).

Re advocating giving Jacinda Ardern a chance - not that I can recall. Feel free to provide a link/quote to where I said that and I will be happily corrected. My point is not so much about giving Bridges a chance, but that can he, let alone ANY of the leadership candidates, take National to the highest ever single party result under MMP, governing alone for the first time? John Key was super popular and never got anywhere near that. Bill English campaigned his ass off and got nowhere near that. ACT is all but toast so lets be honest, National have to get it all by themselves. Labour would just have to spectacularly collapse in this term for that to happen and all signs point towards that not happening at the moment.

One last point, Simon Bridges is more conservative than anti-abortion Bill, and definitely far more conservative than John Key. Christianity in this country is well and truly on the decline, and I can tell you right now with a high degree of confidence that <50% of the voter base are conservative. Can Simon Bridges put aside his principles to appeal to enough of the voter base to get them over 50% of the vote? That is the question.

Judging by the previous election well under 50% of the voters are socialist, so by that token labour will also struggle. But I don't think the policies as a whole of either National or Labour can be distinctly classified as conservative or socialist, or any other particular political designation, just loosely described as centre-left or centre-right, which is a fairly broad and inclusive description.

Also, Bridge's has indicated that he wasn't planning a major shift in policy, so I don't know that his conservative values will necessarily make a significant decision. As per my previous post, NZF is not guaranteed to be around next election, depends on whether Winston runs, as he isn't exactly a spring chicken, in which case, Bridge's conservative values will probably resonate well with the older generation.

But the question being can he generate strong support for the party, yes I think so. The next election is too far to call, literally anything could happen, so to assume that a party will need 50 percent is a stab in the dark at best.

However your call "Labour would just have to spectacularly collapse in this term for that to happen and all signs point towards that not happening at the moment." isn't quite so far-fetched as you make it sound.

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