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Forums › Politics › Donald Trump, US President #47, US President #45, convicted felon, twice impeached, four times indicted, liable of rape, convicted for financial fraud, guilty of hiding hush money payments to porn actress in attempt to influence 2016 elections
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Fred99
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  #1712644 30-Jan-2017 10:15
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MikeB4:

 

 

 

The current President does  not have  huge approval.

 

 

Not even in America.

 

Latest Gallup poll:

 

 

I believe that's not just an unprecedented high disapproval rating, but at over 50% it's unprecedented by a huge margin.

 

There is (perhaps "was"?) a certain respect granted by US citizens toward the office of POTUS.
(Even if the POTUS was from the "other side" the office commanded respect)

 

George W Bush at the same time in his presidency only had 25% disapproval, Obama about 12%.

Rikkitic
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  #1712649 30-Jan-2017 10:31
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I know a president can be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors' but can he also be impeached for mere incompetence? For many years a favourite recreation of mine has been playing chess against the computer. I am a lousy chess player and always will be, but what I enjoy is getting caught out by the computer, taking back moves, and trying different things until I finally discover the right strategy. What this has taught me is that chess is full of unintended consequences. It seems deceptively simple on the surface, but in fact is incredibly intricate and complex. A move intended for immediate gain ends up trapping you 10 moves later. The skill is being able to see this coming, which I never do.

 

I think Trump is starting to discover the unintended consequences of his immigration ban, which he no doubt thought would be a simple and   straightforward act that would appeal to his supporters. I think he will become increasingly entangled in this sort of thing because his instinct is to shoot from the hip. What he doesn't seem to get is that diplomacy is a lot like chess, and he has no understanding of either. The only way I can see him making it to the end of his term is if he starts taking advice from people who actually know what they are doing, and so far I don't see any sign of that.

 

 




Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 

Fred99
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  #1712651 30-Jan-2017 10:37
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freitasm:

 

Also, I have donated to the ACLU today.

 

 

Me too.

 

 

 

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) received more than $10 million since Saturday and has hundreds of thousands of new members in the day since it took action against President Trump's executive order calling for a 90-day ban on nationals from seven predominantly Muslim countries entering the United States and an indefinite pause on admitting refugees from Syria.

 

The donations and membership growth was “unprecedented,” Anthony Romero, the ACLU’s executive director, told Yahoo News.

 

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” Romero said. “People are fired up and want to be engaged. What we’ve seen is an unprecedented public reaction to the challenges of the Trump administration.”

 

MikeB4
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  #1712654 30-Jan-2017 10:47
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Rikkitic:

 

I know a president can be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors' but can he also be impeached for mere incompetence? For many years a favourite recreation of mine has been playing chess against the computer. I am a lousy chess player and always will be, but what I enjoy is getting caught out by the computer, taking back moves, and trying different things until I finally discover the right strategy. What this has taught me is that chess is full of unintended consequences. It seems deceptively simple on the surface, but in fact is incredibly intricate and complex. A move intended for immediate gain ends up trapping you 10 moves later. The skill is being able to see this coming, which I never do.

 

I think Trump is starting to discover the unintended consequences of his immigration ban, which he no doubt thought would be a simple and   straightforward act that would appeal to his supporters. I think he will become increasingly entangled in this sort of thing because his instinct is to shoot from the hip. What he doesn't seem to get is that diplomacy is a lot like chess, and he has no understanding of either. The only way I can see him making it to the end of his term is if he starts taking advice from people who actually know what they are doing, and so far I don't see any sign of that.

 

 

 

 

The Republicans are unlikely to impeach their own President unless their own polling shows that they will be savaged in the next election rounds. 

tdgeek
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  #1712656 30-Jan-2017 10:51
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Rikkitic:

 

I know a president can be impeached for 'high crimes and misdemeanors' but can he also be impeached for mere incompetence? For many years a favourite recreation of mine has been playing chess against the computer. I am a lousy chess player and always will be, but what I enjoy is getting caught out by the computer, taking back moves, and trying different things until I finally discover the right strategy. What this has taught me is that chess is full of unintended consequences. It seems deceptively simple on the surface, but in fact is incredibly intricate and complex. A move intended for immediate gain ends up trapping you 10 moves later. The skill is being able to see this coming, which I never do.

 

I think Trump is starting to discover the unintended consequences of his immigration ban, which he no doubt thought would be a simple and   straightforward act that would appeal to his supporters. I think he will become increasingly entangled in this sort of thing because his instinct is to shoot from the hip. What he doesn't seem to get is that diplomacy is a lot like chess, and he has no understanding of either. The only way I can see him making it to the end of his term is if he starts taking advice from people who actually know what they are doing, and so far I don't see any sign of that.

 

 

 

 

For someone who is successful, and has a big empire, to have an idea and implement it without looking at post implementation effects is highly bizarre. This is probably the first thing he has actioned, as distinct from yakked about and signed off, its his lack of experience coming to fruition.

 

Re impeachment for incompetence, I would doubt it, but a lack of confidence vote by the GOP?

Batman
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  #1712669 30-Jan-2017 11:11
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I never found politics to be remotely entertaining ... until now!

Fred99
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  #1712671 30-Jan-2017 11:14
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tdgeek:

 

 

 

For someone who is successful, and has a big empire, to have an idea and implement it without looking at post implementation effects is highly bizarre. This is probably the first thing he has actioned, as distinct from yakked about and signed off, its his lack of experience coming to fruition.

 

Re impeachment for incompetence, I would doubt it, but a lack of confidence vote by the GOP?

 

 

I quite like the sentence in the relevant wikipedia page:

 

"The law of presidential powers and duties is ill-defined."

 

You could run around in circles arguing what is and isn't grounds for impeachment, and that's before you even start trying to jump partisan political hurdles.

 

 

Rikkitic
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  #1712673 30-Jan-2017 11:21
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joker97:

 

I never found politics to be remotely entertaining ... until now!

 

 

Just wait until you see the missiles coming. That will really entertain you.

 

 




Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 

MikeB4
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  #1712674 30-Jan-2017 11:23
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The Constitution provides the basis for impeachment. That is  "treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors.” To be impeached and removed from office, the House and Senate must find that the official committed one of these acts. After the House Judiciary finds that there maybe a case under the constitution they will vote and if a majority  of the committee agree the papers are prepared and sent to the full house of representatives where a majority has to agree that the constitutional requirements have been met. This is unlikely given the make up of the current house. It is unlikely that being incompetent in itself would be grounds under "Treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors." to be legally impeached.

Fred99
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  #1712680 30-Jan-2017 11:35
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Oh dear - I don't like the way Bill E is having partisan pressure put on him to "make a statement".  Listening to National Radio now.
IMO it would be futile having our PM slagging Trump, which would make no difference at all to the Trump administration, but also probably poison our chance to do something meaningful through an appropriate forum when an opportunity arises.  And if "what Bill E should do" becomes an issue argued on partisan lines, then Trump(ism) will start infiltrating NZ politics.
They (critics of Bill E) should back off - it's a serious global crisis short of war, cross-party support of whatever NZ takes as an "official position" will be needed.

 

 

Batman
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  #1712689 30-Jan-2017 12:04
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Rikkitic:

joker97:


I never found politics to be remotely entertaining ... until now!



Just wait until you see the missiles coming. That will really entertain you.


 



That would definitely entertain! Can't wait to see the looks on the faces of hiss voters!

MikeB4
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  #1712694 30-Jan-2017 12:11
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Fred99:

 

Oh dear - I don't like the way Bill E is having partisan pressure put on him to "make a statement".  Listening to National Radio now.
IMO it would be futile having our PM slagging Trump, which would make no difference at all to the Trump administration, but also probably poison our chance to do something meaningful through an appropriate forum when an opportunity arises.  And if "what Bill E should do" becomes an issue argued on partisan lines, then Trump(ism) will start infiltrating NZ politics.
They (critics of Bill E) should back off - it's a serious global crisis short of war, cross-party support of whatever NZ takes as an "official position" will be needed.

 

 

 

 

"it's a serious global crisis short of war," hmm I think that is stretching it a bit. It is an internal US matter that needs to be managed in line with our current foreign policy by the Minister and Department concerned. NZ should not be meddling with US internal matters in the same way we do not expect the US to meddle with our internal matters. If it becomes an external matter then the appropriate forum is the United Nations and the Security Council but that need is not even in sight yet.

Paul1977
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  #1712702 30-Jan-2017 12:20
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So Trump's ordering the Pentagon to come up with a plan to defeat ISIS? I thought Donald Trump had a plan, and that Donald Trump was the only one who knew how to defeat ISIS?

gzt

gzt
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  #1712707 30-Jan-2017 12:34
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Fred99:

Oh dear - I don't like the way Bill E is having partisan pressure put on him to "make a statement".  Listening to National Radio now.
IMO it would be futile having our PM slagging Trump, which would make no difference at all to the Trump administration, but also probably poison our chance to do something meaningful through an appropriate forum when an opportunity arises.  And if "what Bill E should do" becomes an issue argued on partisan lines, then Trump(ism) will start infiltrating NZ politics.
They (critics of Bill E) should back off - it's a serious global crisis short of war, cross-party support of whatever NZ takes as an "official position" will be needed.


So hypothetically, if a National Party government was in power 2003 and had sent invasion troops to Iraq as Mr Key advocated at that time, you would have advised all other NZ political parties to support that decision?

And back to reality, you would also have advised the Government of New Zealand to not make this statement both upholding the long standing relationship between New Zealand and the United States and also criticising the United States as the United States was about to begin an illegal and undeclared war in Iraq?

Fred99
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  #1712711 30-Jan-2017 12:41
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MikeB4:

 

Fred99:

 

Oh dear - I don't like the way Bill E is having partisan pressure put on him to "make a statement".  Listening to National Radio now.
IMO it would be futile having our PM slagging Trump, which would make no difference at all to the Trump administration, but also probably poison our chance to do something meaningful through an appropriate forum when an opportunity arises.  And if "what Bill E should do" becomes an issue argued on partisan lines, then Trump(ism) will start infiltrating NZ politics.
They (critics of Bill E) should back off - it's a serious global crisis short of war, cross-party support of whatever NZ takes as an "official position" will be needed.

 

 

 

 

"it's a serious global crisis short of war," hmm I think that is stretching it a bit. It is an internal US matter that needs to be managed in line with our current foreign policy by the Minister and Department concerned. NZ should not be meddling with US internal matters in the same way we do not expect the US to meddle with our internal matters. If it becomes an external matter then the appropriate forum is the United Nations and the Security Council but that need is not even in sight yet.

 

 

Hmmm- I think that's naive.

 

The UN is apparently firmly in the gunsights of President Bannon Trump.

 

The new US ambassador to the UN has stated that she's "collecting names" of those opposing US interests, and on the same day, the Wall Street journal received a copy of a draft executive order which cuts funding for programs like UNICEF and global peacekeeping by 40%.

 

 

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