NZ Election 2020

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#2524222 16-Jul-2020 16:30

MikeB4:
Handle9:
The only way that makes any sense is to introduce means testing on all benefits, not just the ones for poor people.

It does make sense. If we reduce the retirement age to say 63 for a defined period it allows access to Kiwisaver and allows seniors to retire and leave the work force thus helping ease unemployment, This in turn can reduce dependency on job seeker benefits.

You're adding more cost on the state while largely getting poor people to pay for it.

A fair proportion of old age beneficiaries don't need their benefits. If they are treated the same as any other beneficiary then I can see some logic.

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#2524226 16-Jul-2020 16:43

GV27:
Fred99:

"Flat taxes" won't fly.

To get within a bull's roar of a balanced budget, that would require either massive spending cuts and/or effectively large tax increases on "middle NZ" (and throwing those who fall below middle ground to the wolves).

Unfortunately we already have set a precedent in this country that election promises don't have to be possible, rational, stack up or be sane in any meaningful way, at least not to the point where you expected to follow through on them.

You have this precedent in every country and every election. It's not a police state, anyone is free to propose any policy they like.

Vote for someone you think has credible policies, or don't vote.

tdgeek

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#2524251 16-Jul-2020 17:53

MikeB4:

Handle9:
The only way that makes any sense is to introduce means testing on all benefits, not just the ones for poor people.

It does make sense. If we reduce the retirement age to say 63 for a defined period it allows access to Kiwisaver and allows seniors to retire and leave the work force thus helping ease unemployment, This in turn can reduce dependency on job seeker benefits.

Sure. Its a special time we need special efforts. I have no idea how many would opt for that, but why not? Do we want one harsh tax that helps some and impedes others or should we be creative and create opportunities as you suggest. I agree.

Bottom line is we all need to contribute. I.e. pay. I don't really want super taxes on me to solve it in a year, nor do I want no action so it goes on every year ad infinitum. Its not an issue right now as we dont now right now what the effect , debt, will be, but the incoming Govt needs to assess that and take action.

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#2524264 16-Jul-2020 18:13

tdgeek:
Sure. Its a special time we need special efforts. I have no idea how many would opt for that, but why not? Do we want one harsh tax that helps some and impedes others or should we be creative and create opportunities as you suggest. I agree.

Bottom line is we all need to contribute. I.e. pay. I don't really want super taxes on me to solve it in a year, nor do I want no action so it goes on every year ad infinitum. Its not an issue right now as we dont now right now what the effect , debt, will be, but the incoming Govt needs to assess that and take action.

The main effect would be to give more handouts to people who, if they are able, will.keep working. Superannuation has no means testing so it'd just be a massive boondoggle paid for by GST, which effects the poor disproportionately.

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#2524268 16-Jul-2020 18:16

A nice media article on TVNZ just now. 180M injected into rural maternity/midwives. Julie Anne Genter explained it, Shane Reti, the new National shadow MoH says that health always needs money, and supporting this need is good.

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#2524277 16-Jul-2020 18:23

Handle9:
tdgeek:

Sure. Its a special time we need special efforts. I have no idea how many would opt for that, but why not? Do we want one harsh tax that helps some and impedes others or should we be creative and create opportunities as you suggest. I agree.

Bottom line is we all need to contribute. I.e. pay. I don't really want super taxes on me to solve it in a year, nor do I want no action so it goes on every year ad infinitum. Its not an issue right now as we dont now right now what the effect , debt, will be, but the incoming Govt needs to assess that and take action.

The main effect would be to give more handouts to people who, if they are able, will.keep working. Superannuation has no means testing so it'd just be a massive boondoggle paid for by GST, which effects the poor disproportionately.

So, if I was near retirement what's wrong with me retiring early? I get a benefit. The 23yo gets a job and not a benefit. I may have freehold house or two, other assets, the 23yo is starting out, may have a young family, may be training, has a job as well which allows that.I think its a fair option. It wont change the world, but every bit helps for young unemployed

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#2524285 16-Jul-2020 18:33

tdgeek:
So, if I was near retirement what's wrong with me retiring early? I get a benefit. The 23yo gets a job and not a benefit. I may have freehold house or two, other assets, the 23yo is starting out, may have a young family, may be training, has a job as well which allows that.I think its a fair option. It wont change the world, but every bit helps for young unemployed

Except you don't retire, you keep working and collect the benefit - there is nothing to stop you doing this.

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#2524288 16-Jul-2020 18:39

Handle9:
tdgeek:

So, if I was near retirement what's wrong with me retiring early? I get a benefit. The 23yo gets a job and not a benefit. I may have freehold house or two, other assets, the 23yo is starting out, may have a young family, may be training, has a job as well which allows that.I think its a fair option. It wont change the world, but every bit helps for young unemployed

Except you don't retire, you keep working and collect the benefit - there is nothing to stop you doing this.

Ah ok, fair enough I hadn't thought of that. There would need to to a rule, for sure. And no doubt more admin on top

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#2524289 16-Jul-2020 18:46

tdgeek:
Handle9:
Except you don't retire, you keep working and collect the benefit - there is nothing to stop you doing this.

Ah ok, fair enough I hadn't thought of that. There would need to to a rule, for sure. And no doubt more admin on top

No you can't do that, it's political suicide just as is any form of sensible regulation on age based benefits.

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#2524454 16-Jul-2020 23:19

MikeB4: I feel a good move would be a temporary increase in GST to 18% to help balance the books and temporary decrease in the National Super entitlement date to help ease unemployment by enabling a group of seniors to leave the work force. Cut back spending that involves overseas spending eg defence procurement, pull all overseas defence deployments back home and channel those savings into public works in NZ using NZ sources to help employment and economic stimulation.

The practical effect of a gst increase at this time would be decreased consumption.

Sovereign interest rates are historically low at this time.There is breathing room and no need to do anything drastic. No doubt some parties will attempt to seize an opportunity anyway before thinking things through.

Enabling seniors to leave the workforce does not necessarily mean they will be replaced, and does not necessarily mean they will be replaced with an unemployed person.

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#2524488 17-Jul-2020 07:04

I'd feel better about blowing out spending if we were going to get infrastructure or productivity dividends down the line to offset later, higher interest costs. But we seem to have a real delivery problem with that kind of thing in NZ. I suspect because our consenting process is so costly and time-consuming, we don't have that many projects that are sitting around and waiting to go.

This isn't just a party thing either - Waterview took months over deadline to open with no real explanation as to why. Transmission Gully has slipped massively also.

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#2524490 17-Jul-2020 07:19

GV27:
I'd feel better about blowing out spending if we were going to get infrastructure or productivity dividends down the line to offset later, higher interest costs. But we seem to have a real delivery problem with that kind of thing in NZ. I suspect because our consenting process is so costly and time-consuming, we don't have that many projects that are sitting around and waiting to go.

This isn't just a party thing either - Waterview took months over deadline to open with no real explanation as to why. Transmission Gully has slipped massively also.

Spending is blowing out to stop the economy completely imploding. Do you seriously think there is any capacity to make structual changes, which require huge private sector investment, when hundreds of thousands of jobs are disappearing?

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#2524491 17-Jul-2020 07:23

GV27:

I'd feel better about blowing out spending if we were going to get infrastructure or productivity dividends down the line to offset later, higher interest costs. But we seem to have a real delivery problem with that kind of thing in NZ. I suspect because our consenting process is so costly and time-consuming, we don't have that many projects that are sitting around and waiting to go.

This isn't just a party thing either - Waterview took months over deadline to open with no real explanation as to why. Transmission Gully has slipped massively also.

100%

We rarely "do" anything here. There is a need to balance the books and give a public friendly surplus. With interest rates so low and with infrastructure so behind and a need to stimulate the economy, now is the time. This form of spending isnt throwing money at the economy and hoping, we need it anyway, so lets spend up what we need to anyway, what will be spent in the future anyway and kill two birds. RMA has to be dealt with. Some of it has alreday ben shortcut recently to get work underway sooner, JC says she will end RMA by lunchtime if elected she says, and in any case its probably easier to pass legislation on urgency, special reasons to get things done

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#2524494 17-Jul-2020 07:32

tdgeek:

100%

We rarely "do" anything here. There is a need to balance the books and give a public friendly surplus. With interest rates so low and with infrastructure so behind and a need to stimulate the economy, now is the time. This form of spending isnt throwing money at the economy and hoping, we need it anyway, so lets spend up what we need to anyway, what will be spent in the future anyway and kill two birds. RMA has to be dealt with. Some of it has alreday ben shortcut recently to get work underway sooner, JC says she will end RMA by lunchtime if elected she says, and in any case its probably easier to pass legislation on urgency, special reasons to get things done

We are very good at long business case study processes that take years and years and generate lots of jobs for consulting engineers, economists and other ministry providers, but one of the terrifying things with Light Rail was that no one could agree who the best ministry to actually plan and build a transport network was.

So NZTA, who should have been the ones to do it, got the job taken from them and made to pitch alongside the unsolicited Superfund proposal to the Ministry of Transport, who have no experience with this whatsoever. And of course as we all know, the project spun out of control and then died.

The East-West connection also went from a cargo diversion to one of the most expensive roads per km in the world at one point.

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#2524495 17-Jul-2020 07:40

Well, something has to change. The benefit now is we have a real need to get workers working, whereas before it was purely political

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