NZ 2023 Election Thread

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251 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#3124153 6-Sep-2023 12:51

GV27:

Rikkitic:

Why do you keep blindly assuming National will do any better?

Why do you save any meaningful scrutiny for people who suggest that they might?

Labour, if only held to the things they themselves promised to get elected, have been a colossal failure.

Easy to look the other way if you aren't impacted, but not much comfort to those who are.

But sure, I'm the one who is "blindly assuming" something.

I will personally go for the people that try to do good by the people but screw it up, over a group that is going to good by their buddies upstairs under the false pretense it's for the good of everybody.

It's a shit sandwich either way but I'll pick the devil I know better.

tdgeek

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#3124158 6-Sep-2023 13:16

PsychoSmiley:

I will personally go for the people that try to do good by the people but screw it up, over a group that is going to good by their buddies upstairs under the false pretense it's for the good of everybody.

It's a shit sandwich either way but I'll pick the devil I know better.

Personally I dont feel they screwed it up. We seem to have economically navigated through Covid and Ukraine better than most, and all countries had and have the same issues. "But if you say it often enough it must be true" I feel the previous PM was very good in her own way, but not well suited to Government. That's past IMO, now look to the future. Can Hipkins do better? Does National have credibility in what is a very very junior leadership team?

Time will tell

Bluntj

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Ultimate Geek
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#3124159 6-Sep-2023 13:17

Rikkitic:

GV27:

Why don't we ask the people living in emergency accommodation hotels for months on end how they think everything is going.

Why do you keep blindly assuming National will do any better?

Could they really do any worse?

sen8or

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#3124160 6-Sep-2023 13:20

PsychoSmiley:

I will personally go for the people that try to do good by the people but screw it up, over a group that is going to good by their buddies upstairs under the false pretense it's for the good of everybody.

It's a shit sandwich either way but I'll pick the devil I know better.

Then you don't want to vote for either Labour or National or Greens or Act. All parties try to do good for their buddies upstairs, the only difference are the buddies

ockel

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#3124163 6-Sep-2023 13:23

tdgeek:

There was a post re IMF showoing how poor we are on one or more settings, must be the Chris Hipkins thread

Seems ok to me

Under Labour

The economy is 6.7% larger than before Covid. Since the depths of the Covid recession, New Zealand’s economy has grown by 10.2% compared to 8.8% for Australia, 7.6% for the US, 7.1% for the Euro Area and 6.1% for the UK, according to the IMF.
Unemployment below 4% for eight consecutive quarters
Strong Government finances: Affirmed last week by Fitch. Net debt of 18.9% of GDP, below Australia, the US, and the UK according to the IMF.
Seven trade agreements singed or upgraded; FTAs now cover almost three quarters of New Zealand’s export.

Oh boy. I'll find time to help you with deciphering the statistics later but I'll start by putting things in context for you. Our GDP is currently about $284bn. I cant be bothered to get the Dec 2019 figures but I'll use the 6.7% growth rate you've quoted.

That implies our economy has grown $20bn since covid. The increase in core Crown expenses over the same time period is $38bn. Even if the rest of the economy had stood still our economy would be $38bn larger by Government spending alone (use the C+G+I+Net Exports formula). It should be 14% bigger that pre Covid but we have lost 6.7% from the rest of the economy - essentially crowding out and capital flight etc.

If you really think that being 6.7% bigger is a good number then theres little point in correcting the other stats.

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

tdgeek

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#3124165 6-Sep-2023 13:31

ockel:

tdgeek:

There was a post re IMF showoing how poor we are on one or more settings, must be the Chris Hipkins thread

Seems ok to me

Under Labour

The economy is 6.7% larger than before Covid. Since the depths of the Covid recession, New Zealand’s economy has grown by 10.2% compared to 8.8% for Australia, 7.6% for the US, 7.1% for the Euro Area and 6.1% for the UK, according to the IMF.
Unemployment below 4% for eight consecutive quarters
Strong Government finances: Affirmed last week by Fitch. Net debt of 18.9% of GDP, below Australia, the US, and the UK according to the IMF.
Seven trade agreements singed or upgraded; FTAs now cover almost three quarters of New Zealand’s export.

Oh boy. I'll find time to help you with deciphering the statistics later but I'll start by putting things in context for you. Our GDP is currently about $284bn. I cant be bothered to get the Dec 2019 figures but I'll use the 6.7% growth rate you've quoted.

That implies our economy has grown $20bn since covid. The increase in core Crown expenses over the same time period is $38bn. Even if the rest of the economy had stood still our economy would be $38bn larger by Government spending alone (use the C+G+I+Net Exports formula). It should be 14% bigger that pre Covid but we have lost 6.7% from the rest of the economy - essentially crowding out and capital flight etc.

If you really think that being 6.7% bigger is a good number then theres little point in correcting the other stats.

They arent my stats I just copied them from the public media, I shall await for National to correctly attack them if they are wildly incorrect

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PsychoSmiley

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Ultimate Geek
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#3124167 6-Sep-2023 13:34

sen8or:

Then you don't want to vote for either Labour or National or Greens or Act. All parties try to do good for their buddies upstairs, the only difference are the buddies

They're all buddies with somebody and it's a given regardless what party, but I'm far less inclined to align myself to those that will support big business, corporate overlords and the 1%'ers at the expense of average people. The average punter however thinks they are being thought of when it reality they're considered scum for those they vote for.

EDIT: a more tasteful approach to my slightly off colour remark.

tdgeek:

Personally I dont feel they screwed it up. We seem to have economically navigated through Covid and Ukraine better than most, and all countries had and have the same issues. "But if you say it often enough it must be true" I feel the previous PM was very good in her own way, but not well suited to Government. That's past IMO, now look to the future. Can Hipkins do better? Does National have credibility in what is a very very junior leadership team?

Time will tell

I'm not saying they screwed up, but they got some things wrong. I feel they have more of their 'heart in the right place' than others they're competing against however.

freitasm

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#3124173 6-Sep-2023 14:01

Whoa. No need for this @PsychoSmiley

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ockel

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#3124175 6-Sep-2023 14:19

tdgeek:

ockel:

Oh boy. I'll find time to help you with deciphering the statistics later but I'll start by putting things in context for you. Our GDP is currently about $284bn. I cant be bothered to get the Dec 2019 figures but I'll use the 6.7% growth rate you've quoted.

That implies our economy has grown $20bn since covid. The increase in core Crown expenses over the same time period is $38bn. Even if the rest of the economy had stood still our economy would be $38bn larger by Government spending alone (use the C+G+I+Net Exports formula). It should be 14% bigger that pre Covid but we have lost 6.7% from the rest of the economy - essentially crowding out and capital flight etc.

If you really think that being 6.7% bigger is a good number then theres little point in correcting the other stats.

They arent my stats I just copied them from the public media, I shall await for National to correctly attack them if they are wildly incorrect

Just to be clear you have quoted verbatim the Labour Party media release (not the numbers in public media) without fact checking them or putting them in context.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2309/S00027/hipkins-sets-out-plan-to-grow-nz-economy.htm

Sixth Labour Government - "Vision without Execution is just Hallucination"

tdgeek

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#3124183 6-Sep-2023 14:41

ockel:

Just to be clear you have quoted verbatim the Labour Party media release (not the numbers in public media) without fact checking them or putting them in context.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2309/S00027/hipkins-sets-out-plan-to-grow-nz-economy.htm

No, I copied what was released to the public media, this IN the public media. If they are all wrong then they will be found out.

evilengineer

466 posts

Ultimate Geek
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#3124207 6-Sep-2023 15:35

Bluntj:

Rikkitic:

Why do you keep blindly assuming National will do any better?

Could they really do any worse?

Spoiler Alert: YES!

Just look at the UK for an example of the mess that an equivalent "right of centre" government can create when given a decent run at it.

But the way things are going it looks like we may be able to find out for ourselves.

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Bluntj

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Ultimate Geek
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#3124251 6-Sep-2023 19:57

@evilengineer What has the UK got to do with it?

No NZ party is even close to UK parties. I was looking at what NZ Labour party has done for NZ over the last 6 years (yes and not all bad), and what are our alternatives. As for me, I will be mixing my vote between two parties is candidate and party as I too dont want National to govern on their own and I dont want Winston in any coalition.